Recently as I've talked with a lot of people from different realms, RR and kind of RvR players , I've read and discuss about wried things that make me realize how stupid a reaver and a paladin will be totally unplayable like the current situation of the wizard. I'm not here to propose solutions, discuss about the technicals aspect (but if some wish to, go ahead), but just to give the staff a shot about how sad it will be for some players with the incoming of old ras.

To start, I wonder what kind of measures the staff is going to take to make the useless class playable again. I just explain my point of view. We all know for example the wizard totally useless with the current system, and the inaction of the staff to make it more playable/useful, and don't tell me about hib or mid becauseI don't know how it's going their side, so I will talk about alb only in this topic.

But now, I really don't know how you're going to counter that fact cause the high rr class of albion and people that always enjoyed to play for example paladin or reaver as an only class are just going to leave due to the no-possible group setup that old ras brings. So, will you give class respec for these people or take any actions? Cause i agree that class respec would be seriously hardcore to do, I'm asking cause with the incoming of such a big change, it's fun to talk about ras respec, but you didn't know that some people might really quit and not enjoy the change at all or the new game play. I'm not here to talk about he two lasts, but will you seriously leave the reaver without DET and paladin to make it really unplayable? You all know everyone will go tireless 2 lw2 anyway and don't give sh*t about their effectiveness when you know it's going to be ten times better to take ama for a paladin in a group etc.

I do ask the staff cause you didn't take any actions to fix wizard to give him more utilities(even the bolt calculation at least to make it at least playable a bit more). My opinion? You bring the new ras system with an old system, and you don't try to balance...What I can guarantee of course if that you might lose more than you didn't intend to.
I do ask the staff cause I've talked with some people telling me: what am I gonna do, I've always enjoyed this char and don't wish to make new char or learn a new one, now seeing how useless they will be and the no-possible way to play it anymore...

And well, I just ask cause I don't want to see these people quit, and to be honest with you if there are no further actions and keep it that way ...

you might also answer me to play with the people that enjoy to play these class though another setup or whatever, but we all know it's not going to happen as we can always get better DET vs no-det, setup or etc. Don't be dumb or fooled...And I talked about High RR class too but it doesn't matter that much as some people use to play also these class but with lower rank.

I can see some of you trying to explain me the dmg from the reaver versus the det of the merc, but I'd laugh cause you don't understand that reaver will deal no dmg with purge 30min, and how easy he will get stun/kill assist cause of cc etc. And by the way, I'm not trying to form a discussion around that matter of fact.

I know this have been like that for age in DAoC, but also why some people left live, cause of the inc of OP class and useless ones.Will Uthgard do the same mistake? Isn't there this server to improve and make the RvR experience a lot better with the current and the old system (deal with the best in other words) to give people the possibility to enjoy every class? We didn't vote all for the incoming of the old ras, and especially these people that will have no more fun playing a char on uthgard, so I ask the Uthgard's Staff to respect these players and tell me if you did realize the situation that it brings for some of us, do you have any solutions?

I know it's not already on this system and not tested yet, but we can already try to discuss about it because we can with ease know a good average of which kind of RvR we will got and how it's going to work on some points.

When I started albion 4-5 years ago, I've made a wizard and brought it to 50. I didn't follow these recommendations of these people telling me how useless it was, cause I thought that some day, the staff would fix it on some points. I hope this is not going to happen this time, or you might lose some active people for sure. And if you prefer consider giving/fixing nothing again and laughing because there is a probability that only few quits, then you're just totally wrong. You will help the situation of the wizard with the old ras system, even if I'd rather have a cabalist, but it doesn't mean to forget the current reality. I'm playing for years now on your server and I just cannot understand why you never wanted to give a something to the wizard. Hope you doesn't make the same mistake as in the past, cause the situation isn't the same as there is more than griselda (wizard high rr) that will be affected with your changes this time.

Best regards, maz

After leaving classes and realmabilities broken/underperforming for 5 years it's gotten quite apparent that they don't really care at all about rvr balance. Obvious imbalances with new realm abilities in a no ml setting have been brought to attention countless times, the staff ignored them until the rvr community grew to a point where complaints got too common and they decided to shut the players up by changing the whole system thinking that will help, avoiding having to do any work on current realm abilities. Unfortunately the old system is flawed beyond reasonable belief as we can see from the countless posts about hybrids and archers becoming (more) obsolete, coupled with a stoneage patch nerfing healers too, making already overpowered spells like nearsight and disease even more overpowered, and whatever else I cannot bother to think of atm. Hats off to the staff if they can surprise me by actually doing customizations to old realm abilities but I really doubt it'll happen seeing as they didn't care to fix the ones that are up and running for 5+ years.

True words Mazur. But unfortunately, like Disdain said, people here care more about classic!!1 than balance.

While I do agree that Old Ra's will suck (even though it's a great benefit for many of my chars) you also have to give the staff some credit here, I see tons of whine all the time with people asking for custom changes and "I've played here for X years and you never fixed this and that problem"

Put yourself in their situation for a minute, they're dealing with some really hard choices here..
Hell I wouldn't know what to do regarding the Old RA vs new RA discussion, both systems are imbalanced in some way or another, and in pretty much any MMORPG at any given patch there will be classes who suffer and classes who are FoTM..
It's EXTREMELY hard to avoid and balance..
Companies who earns millions on these types of games who has far more then a thousand times the resources Uthgard will ever have can't even do it..
Through all patches in DAoC we've had FoTM's and through all patches there has been whine about this and that, somehow people seem to have forgotten this?

I think you get my point for now and I will try not to make this a wall of text like many others do..

But PLEASE give the staff of Uthgard some god damn credit, they do this for free and if you ask me they do a hell of a good job, especially with regards to banning cheaters and keeping the server clean from the REAL problems that even live DAoC didn't really fix properly..

I've always been met with a very supportive and active staff, and the stuff they've been able to fix fast has always been done ubelieveably fast and effecient..

Custom RA's for the old system is not the answer it will just create more problems, if you start to go down that road it will eventually end with some new imbalances..

You may think you have the answer but 100 people will also disagree with you etc, just remember that, there is absolutely no way to make everyone satisfied


- Nag

Trishin wrote:Old RAs and patch 1.69

Basically we are almost finished with this, we are just missing a few RAs to be coded and this should be ready to be rolled out to you. For now they come out unaltered. However please report things that are not working either due to bugs or simply because they do not work in our setting. However do not expect that we will take all complaints into consideration and that we will want the system to run for a bit to see what impact it has on RvR before we will even consider altering it.

Here, you can pray that the staff might opere some custom change after 1 or 2 mounth under Old RA settings.
But as I say, you can only pray at the moment.

Anyway I think that if the RvR balance is heavily "alterated" we might see some changes after ^^

Breeze wrote:You may think you have the answer but 100 people will also disagree with you etc, just remember that, there is absolutely no way to make everyone satisfied

Every sane person agrees on det for hybrids and some sort of balance on the nearsight issue.

Zarkor wrote:

Breeze wrote:You may think you have the answer but 100 people will also disagree with you etc, just remember that, there is absolutely no way to make everyone satisfied

Every sane person agrees on det for hybrids and some sort of balance on the nearsight issue.

IMO, the nearsight issues will never change ... :'(

Breeze wrote:Custom RA's for the old system is not the answer it will just create more problems, if you start to go down that road it will eventually end with some new imbalances..

Ye, that´s the same old lame excuse you hear all the time.

Tell me: what would be broken by letting hybrids keep NF det?

Jarysa wrote:

Breeze wrote:Custom RA's for the old system is not the answer it will just create more problems, if you start to go down that road it will eventually end with some new imbalances..

Ye, that´s the same old lame excuse you hear all the time.

Tell me: what would be broken by letting hybrids keep NF det?

The whole server concept would be borken. I started here cause I wanna play on a classic live like freeshard. Not on a custom one, like Eden.
Old RA will be fine and fun. You have enough time to xp another char, which is grp friendly.

Celteen wrote:The whole server concept would be borken. I started here cause I wanna play on a classic live like freeshard. Not on a custom one, like Eden.
Old RA will be fine and fun. You have enough time to xp another char, which is grp friendly.

If you want stone age classic so bad go outside and play with rocks.

Jarysa wrote:

Breeze wrote:Custom RA's for the old system is not the answer it will just create more problems, if you start to go down that road it will eventually end with some new imbalances..

Ye, that´s the same old lame excuse you hear all the time.

Tell me: what would be broken by letting hybrids keep NF det?

Alright sure I will tell you, and please try to consider this with other eyes then your own as most people who read these forums seems to be biased with their own opinions

Once the 30min purge timer hits with Old RA's determination instantly becomes much much more attractive, and imo is not an ability that anyone other then full tanks (bm, zerker, merc included ofc) especially not at the new reduced cost..

Determination will be so much more powerful with the old RA's that if any hybrid should ever get access to it, it should be a very expensive RA instead of a cheap one as it is atm..

Any class with determination gets a way bigger advantage over non determination classes when purge hits 30min, it's as simple as that.. and for people who only think about themself its hard to see the effects from such a custom change..

Zarkor wrote:

Breeze wrote:You may think you have the answer but 100 people will also disagree with you etc, just remember that, there is absolutely no way to make everyone satisfied

Every sane person agrees on det for hybrids and some sort of balance on the nearsight issue.

I've already commented on the det, but as for the nearsight issue, sure it's a pain in the ass but every realm has access to it, and what would the solution be? throwing around custom cure nearsight for free to some support classes?

Mazh wrote:When I started albion 4-5 years ago, I've made a wizard and brought it to 50. I didn't follow these recommendations of these people telling me how useless it was, cause I thought that some day, the staff would fix it on some points. I hope this is not going to happen this time, or you might lose some active people for sure. And if you prefer consider giving/fixing nothing again and laughing because there is a probability that only few quits, then you're just totally wrong. You will help the situation of the wizard with the old ras system, even if I'd rather have a cabalist, but it doesn't mean to forget the current reality. I'm playing for years now on your server and I just cannot understand why you never wanted to give a something to the wizard. Hope you doesn't make the same mistake as in the past, cause the situation isn't the same as there is more than griselda (wizard high rr) that will be affected with your changes this time.

Best regards, maz

I understand your frustration with the Wizard class, but we have to remember it's a freeshard, and the bolt issue etc is certainly not an easy fix or I'm sure it would have been fixed..
Maybe they simply don't know how to fix it?
Of course you would never get them to admit that, and they would just tell you they are working on it
A solution I guess could be a custom formula like the one they use to calculate PA on assasins, but imo that's not the right way to go and assasins benefit greatly from it atm (no whine, it's not too overpowered but definately custom)

Hey Breeze, good job of jumping in a topic without knowing what people are actually talking about. No one ever suggested hybrids get OF Det, people are suggesting hybrids keep NF Det which is 55% reduction and costs 34 points

Breeze wrote:

Jarysa wrote:

Breeze wrote:Custom RA's for the old system is not the answer it will just create more problems, if you start to go down that road it will eventually end with some new imbalances..

Ye, that´s the same old lame excuse you hear all the time.

Tell me: what would be broken by letting hybrids keep NF det?

Alright sure I will tell you, and please try to consider this with other eyes then your own as most people who read these forums seems to be biased with their own opinions

Once the 30min purge timer hits with Old RA's determination instantly becomes much much more attractive, and imo is not an ability that anyone other then full tanks especially not at the new reduced cost..

Determination will be so much more powerful with the old RA's that if any hybrid should ever get access to it, it should be a very expensive RA instead of a cheap one as it is atm..

Any class with determination gets a way bigger advantage over non determination classes when purge hits 30min, it's as simple as that.. and for people who only think about themself its hard to see the effects from such a custom change..

Fulltanks would get a det almost twice as good (25% cc duration vs. 45% cc duration) for 12 points less (22 vs 34 points).
That´s enough of an advantage.

Also my reaver is not my only character.

Basically eliminating hybrids from group rvr when there is such an easy fix that would not make hybrids overpowered is simply stupid.

Also det doesn´t become more attractive. It´s a must have anyways. It just means that tanks without det will be grouped about as often as friars and wizzards. You obviously have no clue about DAoC.