Hi folks,

I have only recently come back to Uthgard - so what follows may or may not be a good idea for this server. Anyhow:

Not many people participate in the 'big' RvR, but instead stay a long time in BGs or roll Alts. The staff has made suggestion on how to fix this, including BG revamps etc. BUt I don't think any of those suggestions address the actual problem.

The Zerg event has shown that there is a lot of players that can be mobilized for RvR. So why is it that there is only a few high RR FGs running around Emain during the evening hours? I think there is two major aspects to that:

1) Not everyone likes 8vs8 (fair enough, right?)
2) Dominance of high RR setgroups

The 2nd aspect is a bit of a sore point. Not only does elitism drive people away from RvR who are otherwise potentially interested, but it also kills off the new generation of players that push towards 50 and endgame RvR. There is simply no challenge to be had in a fight between rr10s and rr4s, usually. No point arguing this, it's a fact.

So in the end you have a small number of dedicated SGs with high RR that will keep any competition small and on the other hand you have a total lack of zerg for people to get into RvR and maybe earn some RPs and have a good time. If RvR was more accessible to a broader range of people, it would benefit Uthgard greatly, imho.

So my question is this: Wouldn't it be a good thing for each realm to organize a regular zerg? I don't mean mindless mile gate camping either (although that can be fun, I suppose), but other RvR activities - keep raids, relics, etc.

My suggestion: Each realm has big allies. Maybe some of these allies could think about whether they would like to take charge in setting this up? Again, the zerg event has shown that there is a lot of people that can be mobilized for this. Just start with 2-3 ally groups, announce in /broad that everyone is welcome to join and off you go. If you don't meet enemy resistance at first, take their keeps, their relics, and they will come. Guaranteed.

And: The FZ is big, there is plenty of room for both zergs and 8vs8 groups to co-exist to not make this a problem. I think zerg is an important aspect of RVR and crucial for Uthgards' further growth.

P.S.: And just to clarify, I do enjoy 8vs8 - but I am able to recognize that it is only part of what makes RvR and DAoC great and that different people like different things. So no need for snide remarks about that.

Would love to see 2-3 realm leaders from all realms that lead a zerg every evening... However I do not see anyone who is willing to do this.. Atleast not in hibernia..

Heho,

It is a problem, that Uthgard has not often Zergs, the Uthgard Zerg Day Event was started, because of that,too. Beside the thing that is cool to have really big fights like on the event.

The problem is you cannot really have fun as random pug grp in emain, the most time.

Yesterday for example, after running with a highRR Pug, i want to play some of my twinks. So i joined a random grp, with mostly low RR and not a well setup for a random grp. So run out fight against 5 or 6 Albs from KT, was cool, because they were 5 or 6. We wiped but was long fight, but i saw my roots broken maybe sometimes only a few seconds after i made them.
Next run, short after mmg Vanguish fg. 1 or 2 Minutes and we wiped. Next run nearly the same.

You cannot really run with that grp at prime time, yesterday there were kT, Rare, Vanguish and MB out, many of them RR8+ or also RR10+.

So what you can do join a highRR grp or do something other.

Zerg would be an option, so the groups could go OG, but the grps don´t want that at because in OG isn´t many action. Also if the highRR grp would be there, they would be only 2 - 4 maybe.

Zerg organize a zerg is not really easy. For the Uthgard Zerg Day Event I send 24 ppl from Guilds the link to the forum and made one week every day nearly post in the lfg channel.

Getting smaller Zerg is easiere, but then you get fast outnumbered and ppl log fast often if they wipe. We saw that at the event.

An one important point also, leading a zerg is not easy. So somebody have to had fun with it.

I only want to do that for the event or for relic raid, because im a 8vs8 Player.

Greetz Luydor

same problem in midgard, as much as i love to zerg and have no problem in leading a zerg, i am too engaged in regular 8v8 for a regular zerglead... besides it is a really hard and often annoying job. I guess i am too old by now to stand this constant "sl, ld, Speedlost, missed the port... WAIT"

And the job is not rewarded with a big rp gain, since zerging can be a steady flow of rp's but never a big rp boost.

But the idea is great (although i supposed it already a lot of times) and i totaly support it. What is needed is good and committed personnel as zergleaers in all three realms.

My Guild tried a few times to run a Zerg once in a Week (Wednesday 20:00 GMT) starting with 3 Groups CA
All we earned was Hate from Players of our own Realm...

What idea really? To build a zerg of 3 FGs that wipe everything in their path, making everyone else log out?

Instead of artificially trying to revive zergs from the dead, simply build groups that can compete with what's out. You don't need 3 FGs to have fun in end RvR. If you're a badly organised FG, so be it, take action into your own hands and start building a 2nd 4-8 grp of likeminded players to tag along and you'll get way further than the usual 'QQ we cant win, lets log'.
Of course if you idea of 'fun' is to kill off everything that roams by outnumbering in a way there's no fun at all in fighting you guys, sure, frequent zergs are the way to go.


Instead of trying to push people towards zerging, make people who'd enjoy such playstyle come out by themselves, so that they can decide whether or not to build 2 FGs of low RR or even non-50s and head out to Emain. As we know, the playerbase that's open for such a playstyle usually doesn't have anything to do with end RvR. That's where the upcoming changes come in a provide them an opportunity to go out, whether it's solo or with a handful of friends, and just have fun. This will naturally lure out likeminded players, which in time will find eachother and start building bigger grps or even zergs to explore Emain.

The issue with zergs is that even though they don't require the ideal setup and RR, they DO require a minimum amount of players. As mentioned above, the potential playerbase is usually not to be found anywhere near end RvR and there's no reason why they would suddenly risk wasting their time. Not to get the best setup, but to get enough players. This is why artificially creating zergs just can't be a long term solution or even possibility, the requirements are still too high.
Natural zergs are those who exist because of the fact that there's already large amount of players that are willing to RvR. The moment you can motivate the players we've seen on the zerg events to come out to end RvR even without a zerg, natural zergs will become a lot more common, simply because there's enough motivated players to do so.

You can't push people towards a certain playstyle, you have to attract them to it. The only way to do this is by making the non-zerg RvR attractive to those who also enjoy zerging. In other words, by providing viable casual RvR in all its aspects. Solo, smallman, and eventually zergs.


I don't really see why you think the incoming changes aren't addressing the actual problem, but I do know that you can't expect people to magicly create a regular zerg. It's like asking them to form the little brother of a set group, which is the reason they tend to avoid end RvR in the first place...

if you zerg as a guild (where i see absolutly no bad thing either) you need either a lot of self-esteem, or a long ignore list here on uthgard

As it has been said:

Small Zerg (10-16 players) to compete with experienced rvr groups / guild groups / other small zerg? Yeah, why not. I've seen it already and it was fun
vs Schattenblatt for example. We did win and we did lose, we were motivated to try to do better and ofc it was more challenging than 8vs8 with them.

Big Zerg that destroys/adds everything, just outnumbers enemies and gives no chance to the "8vs8 players" to have fun? No thanks, go back to Pve.

@Corvus Albus: There are many people on Uthgard who like to do 8vs8 in Emain (There are indeed many RvR focused guilds). You come with 2/3 FG and you add their fights: I'm pretty sure that 8 albs and 8 hibs/mids don't actually find it "funny". You might find "funny" to kill 24vs8 some enemies cause you are probably used to kill mobs but many people don't, cause there is no skill/challenging involved at all. So yeah, expect to be hated by people who do RvR daily/often.

well tbh i also think primetime rvr seems a bit annoying atm.

I mean it's alot of fun, but only when we get a decent guild group going or the vanquishs got a spot.
And this case means most likely that im stuck with bard again...

The problem is there are no pugs, you only face the same semi fixed groups every evening. There were alot of pugs some weeks ago but last days primetime there is like noone.
This is boring and on the other hand ruins the chance of starting a group with random people, cause theres no point in doing it when you know youll only face semi fixed groups in perfect setups.

Like vomi and zarkor said, i would prefer if people run with more than 8 and do actually rvr then to stay at home. As long as they keep it around 15.
Big Zergs just ruin the rvr, but if we have a slightly chance to win i don't mind running against 8+

Just do it, and don't listen to the immature children that will flame you for zerg/add.

I mean i don't like add either and prefer a clean 8vs8, but the thing i dislike even more is flaming people for adding in this RvR game. And that's the same what i tell my guildmates when they start the same ******.
Adding might be annoying, but i prefer people to add sometimes than to stop rvr cause they only get flamed by their realm mates.
Imo thats a big issue why we always come back to the state where only the same groups are out in emain again. Plz think of this before you start broad flame wars again next time.

zergers don't joke

I guess there is some misunderstanding here - not that I didn't expect that.

I was not talking about zerging Sgs - frankly, I don't see how that would be possible anyway. Ever tried to move in a zerg coordinatetly from A to B?

"We have LD"
"Err, sry guys, was AFK - where r u?!"
"Let's go AMg!!"
"No, Crim in unclaimed, let's go there"
"Uhh, what's happening, feel asleep"

The point being, zerging has nothing to do with the Esport of 8vs8 - it's about getting people mobilized, and raid keeps, see if one can draw out an enemy zerg etc. Epic battles and all that. You know, since this is an equally valid and more accessible play style for most.

But as others have pointed out - finding people who are willing to organize that are hard to find. Just thought I could test the waters and see what the opinions are.

Mh why not. Sounds like a nice idea. Would even leave emain for 8vs8 maybe.

Just try it. Open a bg and spam lfg lfm raid xxx or smth. Could help to bring out new people into rvr.

But could be hard to get people who wanna organize it, so start it

I would like to see some keep battles for a change from the usual emain.

we dont have skills needed to play in equal numbers

lets zerg

Runis wrote:we dont have skills needed to play in equal numbers

lets zerg

sure... win by numbers is the same win as win by skills (what in most cases means win by high rr or setup or beeing trained with the people you play with more than skills anyway)

and social skills are also skills...

i run 8vs8 like 99% of my rvrtime nowadays, but i still can really not understand how someone can be upset when he gets zerged.

I cheer eveytime my group gets overrun by a low rr zerg "hey new faces out". That does not mean we come back after beeing zerged 3-4 times, but as an 8-slot grp you have other options as to run emain all day long...

The last days in RvR wasnt realy funny we build a guild grp and allways met the high rr fg´s and normaly we loose in a very short time the last weeks there was more fun cause other low rr grps like us where also there and we had nice fights so we was able to win and gain some rps, yesterday 2 hours and nearly nothing.
Maybe i it would be good for uthgard to have the normal low rr zerg that make daoc to the great game what it is now.
I will try to form a Midzerg twice a week maybe on tuesdays and thursdays startet 20:00 middle european timezone (berlin) If you´re right and we will get 3-4 grps we can handle that so lets try hope thze other realms build also small zergs and the realy bad realm albion will not come withe double of that