I'm not very custom with alb, however I've noticed that alb leave out many chars out of groups with or without reason.

So I've tried figuring out why, but I can't find any big reasons not to like them. So thats why I came up a 8man setup that may work in RvR including the 'bad' chars.

2x Cleric (40 enh 36 rej)
1x Friar (46 enh, 25rej, 39staff)
1x Sorc (39body, 37mind)
1x Cabi (41matter, 35body)
1x Wiz (41ice, 35earth)
1x Theurg (40earth, 30ice, 20air)
1x Pala (46chants,42shield,44weap)
tons of cc, rupt, heal & dd (& red NS)

seems like a fine kite group

----------------------

If not a good setup plz say why, just yelling its not good is useless.

Well take out the friar and the wizard, put reaver+merc or 2 mercs and you have almost the same kite grp utility but with way more dps.

Or if you want take out friar and wizard, add a body sorc and another cabbie and you have a better kite grp. (More NS, More disease, More assist on body debuff, More demezzers, More pets, More CC, More damage. And you lose just a pboae and well, a friar?).

Maybe your group would work in Emain, but no doubt these 2 setups are just better.

Btw: If there is just one cabbie in the grp he can't run with red NS (41 Matter), he will just lose a lot of utility.

It's not good.



Seriously tho, friar is just useless, he can't hit hard and he can't heal properly... I guess he could run around and sidesnare people but still it's a wasted slot. Wizard has 0 utility, his damage is situational and not that good. I don't understand who you expect to deal damage in that setup, and cc/rupt is no better than the standard alb setup.

arnius wrote:I'm not very custom with alb, however I've noticed that alb leave out many chars out of groups with or without reason.

So I've tried figuring out why, but I can't find any big reasons not to like them. So thats why I came up a 8man setup that may work in RvR including the 'bad' chars.

2x Cleric (40 enh 36 rej)
1x Friar (46 enh, 25rej, 39staff)
1x Sorc (39body, 37mind)
1x Cabi (41matter, 35body)
1x Wiz (41ice, 35earth)
1x Theurg (40earth, 30ice, 20air)
1x Pala (46chants,42shield,44weap)
tons of cc, rupt, heal & dd (& red NS)

seems like a fine kite group

----------------------

If not a good setup plz say why, just yelling its not good is useless.

Why do you mids don't run

2 healers
shaman
thane
BD
Sm
rm
rm

?
Exactly....

Tirax wrote:Why do you mids don't run

2 healers
shaman
thane
BD
Sm
rm
rm

?
Exactly....

Rofl that even might work if sm is dark and rm's & bd are sup

None the less I still find somewhat strange that friars are so disliked, yes they don't deal damage as a merc or heal like a cleric but they do bring additional resists & some heal, that could take some stress of clerics ...

Well I geuss you'll now better you play alb more often as I do

Well why take a friar, those resists aren't even needed because caster groups will debuff them, and paladin has the resist chants anyway... During fight they bring nothing, no damage, no utility, they don't even have decent group RAs (even ST is bugged like hell forever)

And if you take a friar, you have to kick a much more important class. Well, even if alb groups had 10 slots I doubt I would take one, they just suck

with old RAs id run caster extend group more than anything --

something like 2x cleric, 2x sorc, 2x cab, paladin, minstrel

maybe replace minstrel with theurg (dont know how old RAs will effect them)

but nearsight and disease become even more important with 30 minute purge, not to mention mid grps will run even more bers and svg (if it was possible) but charge is no longer OP, so nearsight support+disease tanks=win

my opinion

Hedra wrote:Well why take a friar, those resists aren't even needed because caster groups will debuff them, and paladin has the resist chants anyway ...

sc with resis is so useless.

Rofl that even might work if sm is dark and rm's & bd are sup

None the less I still find somewhat strange that friars are so disliked, yes they don't deal damage as a merc or heal like a cleric but they do bring additional resists & some heal, that could take some stress of clerics ...

Well I geuss you'll now better you play alb more often as I do

thats my opinion too..... the most grps dont try it with friar... only blaaa and blubb.
friar dont heal like a cleric.. but he CAN , friars dont need buffs and spare con for other grp members. And they can deal damage aswell. The arguments that resis can be debuffed are just idiotic. And they are able to operate too, when pala (and enduchant)died.

Avelion wrote:

Rofl that even might work if sm is dark and rm's & bd are sup

None the less I still find somewhat strange that friars are so disliked, yes they don't deal damage as a merc or heal like a cleric but they do bring additional resists & some heal, that could take some stress of clerics ...

Well I geuss you'll now better you play alb more often as I do

thats my opinion too..... the most grps dont try it with friar... only blaaa and blubb.
friar dont heal like a cleric.. but he CAN , friars dont need buffs and spare con for other grp members. And they can deal damage aswell. The arguments that resis can be debuffed are just idiotic. And they are able to operate too, when pala (and enduchant)died.

Ok, let's say we want to play with the "standard" alb hybrid setup:

Sorc, Cleri, Cleri, Caba, Theurg, Pala, Merc, Merc (Reaver).

How this setup work?

Well you can kite well against tankspam: Sorc+Caba CC and debuff nuking on overextended tanks, Pala stuns/snare these tanks + Guard against their assist train. Theurg rupt supporters and Mercs switch from free supporters to overextended tanks.

You can either do well against casters setup: You have 3 Tanks to split assist on casters, Theurg with lot of targets to rupt, Caba+Sorc beside CCing and NS they can kill stunned target.

And you can play well against hybrids: 2 mercs on casters, pala+sorc+caba kite etc..

The mainly DPS of this grp is: Sorc+Caba in assist and 2 Mercs.

Let's say you wanna put a friar in this setup, what class can you kick?

1) Caba. That means: No NS, Less CC on kite, No Debuff assist with Sorc, No disease on tanks etc.. And Sorc+Theurg takes all the assist train

2) Theurg. You lose a lot of rupt that makes both kitekills and push way harder. Plus no DA and Haste

3) Merc. You just lose a lot of DPS against tankspam and well, how can a friar push against caster setups when his root/mezz last forever?

Friar can't replace a tank cause he has no det. Friar can't replace a Theurg/Cabbie cause the whole grp will lose a lot of utility, making enemies harder to kill.

Avelion wrote:

Rofl that even might work if sm is dark and rm's & bd are sup

None the less I still find somewhat strange that friars are so disliked, yes they don't deal damage as a merc or heal like a cleric but they do bring additional resists & some heal, that could take some stress of clerics ...

Well I geuss you'll now better you play alb more often as I do

thats my opinion too..... the most grps dont try it with friar... only blaaa and blubb.
friar dont heal like a cleric.. but he CAN , friars dont need buffs and spare con for other grp members. And they can deal damage aswell. The arguments that resis can be debuffed are just idiotic. And they are able to operate too, when pala (and enduchant)died.

don't forget useful ress in combat (compared to useless pala ress (at least in combat))...resists could be spared by pala so he'd save endu and also debuffing them is not as useful as u end up at 0 instead of -25% (with 50 resi before and a 50% debuff), which makes a lot of difference...i really like friars...

I'd rather put a (bugfree/new RAs)minstrel in the alb setup than a friar any day. It can take the place of Caba pretty well ( though less dps there shouldn't be alot of heals due to theurg / minc / (sorc) rupting. ), it should also work in the spot of the theurg pretty well, though atm thats just suicide due to bugged rupting.

Without purge 3 it just loses alot of it's utility though, so when old RAs come, alot less setups will be possible, i think albion has the most freedom to choose setup atm, though some are (much) harder to play than others. Like putting a friar in there, i guess it would be possible with new RAs in place, though it will be much harder. Same goes for ice wiz... arms instead of merc...

But instead of playing paper daoc, go make a friarbased setup and report back here how it went. Paper daoc can be played forever and ever...

On Live i played a couple of times with:

cleric
cleric
friar
theurg
theurg/sorc
cabby
cabby
sorc

before love in heal spec. It worked very well with bodyguard, zo akart, ST, disarm, end reduce, and those insane red 25% healprocs.

With the additional skillpoints and the big improvement in the reju line, this setup was unmatched except by 2-3 bd setups.


There was reason why friar got more love than any other character in this Game ever.

OF friar is just stupid.
I played one from OF pre-Si until Server merges. I hitted rr10 as first friar on my server and this was just before the merges, thats right, it Tool Forever,

Avelion wrote:

Rofl that even might work if sm is dark and rm's & bd are sup

None the less I still find somewhat strange that friars are so disliked, yes they don't deal damage as a merc or heal like a cleric but they do bring additional resists & some heal, that could take some stress of clerics ...

Well I geuss you'll now better you play alb more often as I do

thats my opinion too..... the most grps dont try it with friar... only blaaa and blubb.
friar dont heal like a cleric.. but he CAN , friars dont need buffs and spare con for other grp members. And they can deal damage aswell. The arguments that resis can be debuffed are just idiotic. And they are able to operate too, when pala (and enduchant)died.

Doh, if you think friars are so good I'm not preventing you to play with them... But I'm definitely not going to invite a 0 utility char, because guess what, I've tried already.
And the argument of debuff resists is not more idiotic than the argument of a dead paladin. Cause of course paladins always die first and no one rezzes them

also debuffing them is not as useful as u end up at 0 instead of -25% (with 50 resi before and a 50% debuff), which makes a lot of difference

That's wrong, half of the value debuffs your base resists (from SC + racial bonus), the other half debuffs only on buffed resist part. That you have no resist buff or red one doesn't matter, you'll end up at 1% with 50% debuff.

@ Hedra

Why the hell do I have to keep body/spirit/energy resistence buffs up as a Cleric? It's just a waste of casting time and power! In that time (about 5 seconds) I could also have resurrected or healed somebody else.
Don't tell me that there are no body/spirit/energy resistence debuffs!
If we all agree to Hedra's (and many other's) opinion then we can say that resistences are useless at all.