How about more players encourage taking more than just the "core" 8man classes out to RvR? Champions, VWs, Thanes, Friars, Wardens, Animists, Minstrels, Wizards all get turned away. Hell, I've sat waiting, more than once, with groups waiting on certain classes while turning away others.

I just want to get out there and play, not sit in PK for 20 minutes because they didn't want to take a Thane and wanted to wait for a warrior. Those classes can offer something in RvR, but the elitist mentality of "this class doesn't have determination" or "some other class is better at such in such" is harrowing to people who like those classes, and want to do group RvR.

If they don't want to solo and can't get a group, what recourse do many of those classes have except to reroll or zerg? I think all the realms should take a more casual view instead of hardcore about group setup. It could make for some really exciting and interesting fights. I know I've had some with the odd setup every now and then.

Splamo wrote:How about more players encourage taking more than just the "core" 8man classes out to RvR? Champions, VWs, Thanes, Friars, Wardens, Animists, Minstrels, Wizards all get turned away. Hell, I've sat waiting, more than once, with groups waiting on certain classes while turning away others.

i agree with this.. although it is even harder on uthgard than on live as many of the unwanted classes are either buggy or deeply underperforming compared to live

don't know how it was on the servers you played toblerone on sh, darttmoor, avalon and i guess every german server and the classic live server i forgot the name emain was always add and kill everything. From 2002 until NF came. And i can't imagine this would have changed without NF until today, even with NF it where kind of, just different as NF is different

That is why the 8-slot community avoided emain or didn't complain about such if they went there.
Of course as a designated 8-slot grp you knew the other 8-slot grps and did not add theyr fights, but not all did and that was seen as good but not standard behavior.

That is why we added everything in the beginning, took several months until we realised it is different here, and i would like to see this change to live behavior now.

what is so impossible and killing the playstile about to write in irc "emain is too zergy for us, we switch zone", to let other same minded know you change the zone?

of course it is a change for this server and most people don't like changes, but just give it a try and some time. Because it doesn't work today does not mean it will not work tomorrow

holsten-knight wrote:That is why we added everything in the beginning, took several months until we realised it is different here, and i would like to see this change to live behavior now.

No you added because you need high rr to preform decently. I'm sure people pointed out how lame your zergs were be right from the start

Neju wrote:

Splamo wrote:How about more players encourage taking more than just the "core" 8man classes out to RvR? Champions, VWs, Thanes, Friars, Wardens, Animists, Minstrels, Wizards all get turned away. Hell, I've sat waiting, more than once, with groups waiting on certain classes while turning away others.

i agree with this.. although it is even harder on uthgard than on live as many of the unwanted classes are either buggy or deeply underperforming compared to live

True, true. The email survey states this to be the number one concern for players and the staff says this will be the top priority. I'm hoping this will come to fruition, and even with how bugged the animist fixes were, I have faith the staff will come through.

Tobletwo wrote:No you added because you need high rr to preform decently.

sign ,, btw they zerged AND added

Tobletwo wrote:I'm sure people pointed out how lame your zergs were be right from the start

sign

Splamo wrote:I just want to get out there and play, not sit in PK for 20 minutes because they didn't want to take a Thane and wanted to wait for a warrior. Those classes can offer something in RvR, but the elitist mentality of "this class doesn't have determination" or "some other class is better at such in such" is harrowing to people who like those classes, and want to do group RvR.

Ok look. I agree that the general mentality is based around building a "non gimped" FG setup before running out.

The biggest problem is however that usually the players who start these groups are the ones most eager to get a working grp together to start RvRing instead of spamming /lfg semi afk at the border keep. Most of the time they are more determined than the majority of casual players.



If the players of those oh so unfortunate 'gimp' classes would actually start taking their OWN faith in their hands, things would look a lot more differently. The biggest problem with most casual players is that they are just too damn lazy. Instead of interacting with their realm mates and PMing possible team mates themselves, all they tend to do is type /lfg RvR and expect magic to evolve all around them. When they realise this magic isn't there, they start to get demotivated while in fact they really didn't even try properly.


What we need is motivated casual players that do not hide the fact that they are not intending to run just a full group. THEY should start their own groups, inviting the fundamental classes (about 4/8 ) and then fill up with whatever is left. However instead of stopping at 8, they should not be afraid to start a BG and have additional casual players tag along.

This way casual players will find their companions and stand a chance against the 8v8 violence already out there. They also wont cause frustration to players who expect too much from the people they invite.
Also, this pool should be open for anyone, even the more hardcore players. However these more determined players should then realise they are not running and will not be running the ideal 8man they would like to. They now find themselves on the casual RvR area, where they will have to be happy with what they can get instead of flaming people for sucking balls.




So in other words, small casual zergs can be a solution. Large forced zergs lead to nothing but the extermination of action in the end.

holsten-knight wrote:That is why we added everything in the beginning, took several months until we realised it is different here, and i would like to see this change to live behavior now.

So you claim you realise it's different here, well done. However you still don't seem to have the cognitive capability to think through WHY that is the case.

I'll tell you, it's because the Uthgard SETTING is completely different from live, this causes a completely different situation and behaviour.

You can not expect to change a behaviour to livelike when the setting is FAR from livelike. This is something u seem to keep failing to understand, dont you?


On live the zergs were a completely different playerbase than the 8man groups. That playerbase has turned away from endgame RvR on Uthgard and will NOT magicly revive because a handful of players wants to destroy RvR on a regular basis.

That playerbase will only start to get interested in end RvR again by making RvR itself attractive again in its whole, not by granting the occasional "stick zergleader and leech rps as much as you want" option.

Addtional note: The best way to get those motivated casual players is again to provide general attractive end RvR in its whole so that these players will not have to search hours to find enough like-minded players, but encounter them more naturally.

Again, it lies in the staff's hands, however there is a possibility to do efforts from the community's side. Problem is, as said before, casual players rarely use third party tools such as IRC or forums when it comes to playing DAoC.

it took us so long, because we don't listen to every noob yelling at us

and @ zarkor no the difference here is just the mentality, which evolved through years of low population or whatever.

and this can be changed, i am sure of that... but i will stop arguing now. it makes no sense to talk with just the same people over 12 pages that have theyr mind and are not open for discussions

Zarkor wrote:So because you (as a zerger) don't like one perticular playstyle, you wouldn't mind destroying it for weeks or even months just to enforce another playstyle onto others?

im not a zerger ,.. im a guy that likes daoc for its epic battles ,..
i like 8vs8 too , its great fun too ,.. if its equal ...

so:
there is noone that dont like a specific gameplay (on the zerg promoter side)
there is noone that like to destroy a specific gameplay due to *ENFOCING* (this made me LOL the most) it to anyone!!!
(on the zerg promoter side)

Zarkor wrote:That's not a single bit better than what we have now. In fact, it's even worse. 8v8 NEVER intentionally destroyed any type of playstyle.

again: ZERGING DOESNT DESTROY ANYTHING!!!!
its just one more step to be more livelike : EMAIN = ZERG ZONE !
8vs8 guys can go to odins/hw since its the smaller amount of People.

the bigger amount of people decide whats going on ,...
or it should be like that

i belive that the 8vs8 mentality's intention was not to destoy another type of playstyle BUT , fact is ,.. that it did!
as you can experience from all BG players,...

the *DONT ADD DONT ADD* flame you can see on /broad sooo often even when you re playing in the BGs wont lure more ppl out of the BGs ,.. cause they already know they ll get flamed for RvRing in a way they prefer !

when you start listening to BG players you will know.,...
actually some of them even agreed in THIS topic ,.. if you just overread it ,.. .. well ^^

Zarkor wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:It worked on every server i played so far.

Well that's awesome for you but THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING AT ALL ON UTHGARD.

None of those servers had OF with Uthgard's setting. None. ZERO. So stop generalising things to make it look like it will work while in fact you haven't got the slightest clue!

You haven't even took the effort to think the issue through!

WoW. how do you know on which servers he played?^^

it's hard to group unwated classes because of how this server is set up

Casting speed is terrible, NF RA's dont match this server at all...power pool is gawd awful

So groups are forced to min/max with classes and RAs moreso then live because skill isnt as involved here. I can do a craaaaap load more on a low RR druid on live than a low RR druid here. The same would go for lets say a champ or VW. Therefore since dmg, power pool, casting speed, etc. are gimped you need to compensate with whats OP. Also, there has never been a DAOC situation where RR is as important as it is here. A high RR group has a much higher chance of being a low RR group here than live because things like purge 3, DI, BOF, cannot really be countered by better play as easily when casting speed is just terrible and damage for any class other then charge tanks doesn't come as easily.

Not to mention GMs do not give a rat's as* about hybrids, or else they would implement things like the hybrid patch.

Tobletwo wrote:The problem with uthgard is that most of it's players are players who quit live early, still stuck with the year 2003 mentality and enforce it en mass onto modern rvr (adding everywhere, 3 ways, one realm zerging others, stealther zergs etc.). On live players learned to respect each other because they realised over time that that kinda gameplay didn't benefit anyone.

So and thats the reason YOU quit playing live?
or why did you quit live in order to play on a "semi borken freeshard"?
you always complain about uthgard is sooooo broken ,.. and when the community sucks too ,.. why do you play here?

Because it's free duh lol.

holsten-knight wrote:and @ zarkor no the difference here is just the mentality, which evolved through years of low population or whatever.

Fool. This just shows how clueless you are... I'm glad you've made it crystal clear now.

Feelit wrote:ZERGING DOESNT DESTROY ANYTHING!!!!

Rofl, whatever you say dude, whatever you say...

Feelit wrote:WoW. how do you know on which servers he played?^^