ForumWhy do you think the Ranger is OP ?
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I play uthgard since very long time dude
 i don't need your advice for know my class and the only way to kill a ranger is : be noskill .
and i will NEVER do it . some people greykill in df and will do it forever , and even if all my rerolls get chain by some stupid guys i won't revenge like a poor vindicative little boy on all players. that same , even if lot of rangers like overpowered pd & ip combo i won't take viper3 and annoy every players that i will duel with a no skilled ra. |
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The only one way to kill ranger is, stun him when he has 15-20% hp, and use damage add.
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just my 2 cents with experience from braemar and wilton:
I'm a AT-thrust-pole-arms, which makes me not the best ranger-killer and for a long time I wasnt even SCed (now i got level 40 sc from some1 in the ally (i am level 42), which is pretty good but not "awesome" (95% pole still  )...
ok, thats just the basis, so u know what I am talking about... in the BGs, especially wilton, I have notices that rangers are pretty hard to hit...a long time i saw some rangers running around and i thought they were BMs, because the never stealthed...i always run around with shield, so they usually dont attack me ranged but go for me in melee directly and I, as a plate wearer, can say, that they hit damn hard and most of the time I actually lose, if they are not way below my level or are not SCed (when i was 41 i got killed by a 38 ranger (hey there uchii! ), which i never got to kill myself solo (he did as much dmg with 1 of his weapons and not taking dmg add into account as i did with my pole (styled of course)...
I really think something is off balance here and I guess PD-removal from rangers would help, but I guess we should think of another way to fix this, as we probably wont see this change come to be "live like"... (which is no blame) just my 2 cents...gonna say more, when I've been to thid for a while |
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As i thought would happen, many QQ rants, with nothing to back them up. No screenshots of dmg, no logs , nothing. Just the normal " i got killed, im strong and they shouldnt be. " If you get killed by a ranger, ask yourself why. What did you do in your fight, explain that in detail and i bet someone will pin point what you did wrong. Ether wrong RA selection or bad timing, or maybe just luck.
Now there is alot of attation on PD, IP and being able to spec blades or something. Well to get high PD, it cost High RA cost, which the enemy can use that on Viper 2 or 3, and if not an assasin, there is many other skills like MoPain, or even MoBlocking/Parry, which could help you cut down on damage you take. Same goes for IP, it cost and you can also buy something to try and counter it. And if you spec blades, then they are most effected by the str/con debuff or simular debuff and rangers lack in strength. But when it comes to vs assasins, its 10% more dmg vs SB and neu vs Infi, while Pierc is 10% weaker vs both assasins. That is why the dmg is better with blades, when it comes to assasins. Also dont forget str/con charged rangers, to help make up to the lower natural str they get. Now maybe PD and IP doesnt work with Uthgards setup, but then again, on live people have more buffs, more HP. So PD and IP would be more effective, while on uthgard we have less HP, so PD isnt as effective and same goes with IP, as they are both a %. Please stop the ranting people, and i hope a mod could deal with some of the ranting, so this doesnt have to be closed. Please if you have a point about something, be specific about it. If you died, tell us what all you did, and what RAs, tactics, and what he did that was so OP to beat you. Things like that is what you discuss, not just ranting about customizing uthgard to make a ranger easyer to kill. |
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Came on Feelit, are you telling us that all (because every 4Lx ranger can now easy kill every other stealthers) rangers are proh players (just look at the herald for an idea of the lwrp they made) while shadowblades, infi, scouts and hunters players are just all noobs (because they can be easy killed by every 4Lx ranger)?
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there are a number of things that could be considered as OPed about rangers in uthgard's setting.
Some of them require fairly high RR to take advantage of. For example, if you can get PD4/5 and IP2, the amount of unresisted damage needed to kill you is laughably high. Especially slash damage, which a lot of classes use primarily. As already mentioned by Sehya, defense penetration on uthgard is broken, so the only way to effectively reduce block rates, or evade rates is through DW/CD/LA mechanics. No other archer has access to those besides the ranger. Meaning the only stealther that has evade/shield penetration along with IP, PD, decent ranged damage, MoS that works against everyone, etc, is the ranger. Self buffs don't hurt either on a bottless server. IMO the solution is OF RAs. But to be honest, I don't find the ranger to be all that troubling. Just wanting to point out (some of) the legit concerns in this setting. Last edited by Force on May 18, 2010 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Well i really dont think lower level rangers are running with PD4 or 5, so a custom nerf to PD wouldnt have any effect on whats happening to you. Now in wilton or till a ranger is 48, he can not spec bow, which means all BG rangers are normaly full bow spec, may spec stealth, but if they didnt stealth at all, then your facing max melee with high buff, and he gave up his choice to stealth. Now yes its harder to get past a rangers defense with 2h, when hes got dual wield. But one tactic, i dont see often from others is to run behind an enemy or side and try your best to have your style go off when your not in front. This way most of the time youl get past there defenses. That is what i normaly do, especialy vs sword and shield enemys. Most of the time though i see enemys doing there #1 tactic of standing still and hitting two keys. While i time myself to get styles away from his defenses and even land some side stuns also. Selecting a smart spec for a BG, along with SC gear and 99% qual weapons and some tactics in a fight, could go along way, even vs a ranger. Get to know your enemy and how the game works and use that to win your fights. Now someone can spec and get the RAs to win vs rangers, but doing so, may leave them more vulruble to other classes, but that is part of the game. |
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This is a joke post then....? People have explained all this, don't pretend people havent already discussed this, linked stats, it demeans you to try to paint it like people are just crying becuase they played badly and if they played another way they would win an average amount of fights. Im guessing you work in PR, your wording is all designed to make it as if no-ones ever touched on what you are asking and you are trying to get to the heart of the matter, when in reality you are just trying to say Rangers arent op they are just misunderstood....and lucky and played by better people.... see how you feel in 3 months when there are no other stealthers to hunt, just rangers |
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Percentage based stuff isn´t more effective, when you have more hp. Doh. Toughness on the other hand ... I guess archers/assassins have about 1250 hps on uthgard unbuffed. Assuming 100% melee damage (which is stupid ofc) toughness5: effective hps 1650 pd5: effective hps 1736 obviously damage isn´t purely melee damage, especially for an assassin So if you want to kill rangers as an assasin: -get as much magical damage as possible (viper/dmg add) -switch in a dot weapon as often as possible -get toughness -don´t get sidestunned Last edited by Jarysa on May 18, 2010 13:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Please keep on the topic, if you think i missed something, please let me know the info, im some how missing. So far i had read a few points, and commented on them, and many others are complaints that dont have enough info to judge on. Like saying i fought class X and died many times. That statment says nothing about how you fight, what would be the reason I had died each time. If someone makes such claims, give details to help fiqure out what is wrong.
Another one i see is about the benifits of dual wielding vs defenses and how WS has no effect on penetrating defenses. Well some could say that isnt fair for the ranger to have that benifit. But customly changing the ranger doesnt fix it, what needs to be done for that is a fix to that issue and that is WS and how it work for defense penetration. Im just using that as an example. Another post was about blades doing like 160 ( no pic or log for proof or current resists ) , which that is vs leather on a SB. So that is 10% absorb armor and weak to slash. While his dmg is slash, which is weak to RF and also RF is more Absorb and AF and could have some PD. So that is why the ranger will out dmg you in some cases. I personaly never hit for that much, maybe 120-130 with high spec with 40 PF buffs and all that spends on the enemy. Normal dmg to see is about 90-100 with taunt, but that is with a hybrid spec. |
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I think you have missed something - 'all the previous posts which explained what you are asking in great detail.' |
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One additional hint: Luri Rangers with 10 con at the creation have 1210 hits (with str/con charge 1415). A Norse SB has 1375 or 1588. Thats quit a difference. Now you have to deduct 118 str con which means 990 life left for the Ranger. They must be really op. To be honest there are only a few poison users out there who redot with almost every swing (Irisia or Baman  ) and that is a huge dps lost for assassins no matter if you have viper or not.
Ranger is a strong class but the same goes for SB. Noir you are such a whiner unbelievable. Last time i gave you a huge normal shot and a rapidfire shot and at about 80% I found you again (as usual) and you charged a second damadd to your Runemaster buff that way you outdamaged me easily (without back or evade chain). I hadnt IP in this fight but to all ppl who say: wow, ip is too strong. Maybe for fulltanks which str/con charge but for a Ranger it heals the half which means 495 for that example above (about 2 strong healpots). Additionally this RA has a 15 min timer and it wont be up every fight. @Eclipsed Ehm, Ranger and Hunter are the losers of the non existing defense penetration, especially when they are bow spec. Chars with specable defense or some with non (like mincers and clerics) block and parry a lot. A situation like a group RA specced merc with 42 shield spec and only a few into parry could parry about 50% of your hits and maybe 25% of them are fumbles. So my conclusion is that chars with a specable defense have a clear advantage. Otherwise I would evade more often vs friars and they wouldnt parry everything in front (same outcome vs warriors). |
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- I Have vip3 - I switch as much as i can before im dead - have 1650 hp with a 57 str/con buff and pots at start of fight, that should be enough? - Dont get sidestunned - How...? Thats similar if sbs were op to saying dont get poisoned...How do i avoid a stun when i needed to spend points in vip 3 so cant afford purge....? The only way i have read of avoiding a stun is to spend the entire fight walking backwards or becoming a lame strafer, lag screen dragging... Try walking backwards in df for more than 10 secs....while switching weapons over and over... Last post from me to you - you ask for proof, get a gm to call the stats on how many times rangers kill sbs and vicer versa...im guessing that will speak for itself |
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first of all sry i am italian, so my english is not so good
i decided to write what i think about rangers, even if i wanted to not argue with staff decisions, but, damn, this server have really a good potential that isn't used ... just for let u know, on italy, there was problems to update times ago, so on vortigern we played for really long time at 1.60. This is just for point that i played A LOT with the spec of old daoc days. I played on Mid shadowblade (before nerf, shadowzerk spec) spiritmaster and skald. ok, about rangers: is clear all what i heard (and read) about PD too powerful for this settings (old days was not only on cloth, but on some classes that needed it, for exemple NS's had it) but was active, every 30min (don t remember the % of damage reduction). Anyway this is only 1 of the problem, but not the most important on my opinion, and will be fixed (i hope!!) very soon introducing OF COMPLETE REALM RA'S SYSTEM that will help a lot balancing, mainly for albs (SOS only on micers, BOF clerics, BAOD chanters etc.). I hope rr5 ra's wil be removed too (is a joke have it on uthgard, see remedy or rr5 sorc). Anyway i don't want focus on ra's, i am sure we all know this and i can explain why a COMPLETE OLD RA'S SYSTEM will help a lot balance like old daoc days on another topic. the real problem on rangers is a problem that is clear on every class on this server. there is something wrong on WS and on how this affect defence on fights. rangers, mainly, HIT TOO HARD, like Mercs, Bm's, Sb's (melee), zerks. all this dual wielder class have something wrong. on the other side there are some classes totally gimped on damage, but, more important, can't have any chance on block/evade. i can talk about armsmans, or hero, that hit like chicks, but, mainly, get a lot of evade, or i can talk about infs (crit spec) that , even if full buffed (with potions) , evade A LOT LESS than a ranger (same rank). i dunno what is wrong, but IS NOT POSSIBLE that with inf evade 7 i never evade against rangers, while they evade a lot (with evade 3). Or with friar, on 10 swing i get evaded 9 times against sb's. these are only exemples, i can talk about a single class i play here (friar/inf/pala), but, on general, something is BAD WRONG on Weapon Skill of dual wielder and how this impact on melee chance to hit. Rangers, sometimes, can win against a merc if with ip UP, this is just a big joke, like is a joke a ranger can kill a inf/sb EVEN WITH IP UP. mainly, things that need a look: - RA'S SYSTEM (complete back to Old settings) - DAMAGE on 2handed, spears/polearm (is pathetic the damage i see now, but, really, pathetic, at least on friar/armsmans, mids seems ok). About this, i dont' say nothing against a Mid Warrior that hit my inf for 400/450 damage with back style, is totally normal, what is not normal is armsmans/hero's, compared to what happened on live) - WS CHECK, is CLEAR there is something wrong, explecially on dual wielders classes this are the problems of the server, and rangers just are a class that can take advantage of all this - new ra's (IP/PD passive combo+rr5) - Ws bugged, deal too mutch damage and get never evaded/blocked - when hit, they got hit like a child from heavy tanks that, on live, basically tri-shot all is not plate/chain weared without any evade (or really rare) sorry for my english and long post, will be not easy understand what i say, but i hope will take some idea on what to check. just some exemples: rr4l5 inf full sc'ed and with potions against rr5l ranger: when hit is really low damage (for pd) and 90% of times i never get 1 (repeat, 1) evade. Not possible, sorry, something is wrong, expecially after rangers are debuffed str/con. remember critic infs have 50 (repeat 50) thrust spec like, very high ws (this mean better chance to hit on live) the most points to use. |
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ronia you are so funny , you think normal that i need 2 add dmg for have equal dmg ? haha stop say bulls ... i respec 50 cs for try , last time i perf you, you took 300 (-450 ) , and last time you did a crit shot i took 650 that's normal? base hit on you is 40 . 300 more hp is totally nothing when the target hit 2 or 3x more than you.
and last duel we did you hadn't ip and i purged. thats mean you did absolutly nothing but taunt style ) & i win fight with 5%. and you didn't even straff , gimme a rr10 ranger and yuo won't get me under 60% with no ras |
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