I've been seeing so many threads about Ranger's being over powered, and most of the threads stats, Rangers are OP, but not often are the reasons why or any detail. Just nerf them because i died. Most of these get closed and so i thought id make a thread to get down to why you think they are OP. And be detailed why, dont just give a simple, they do too much dmg, i dont hit them hard enough. Youve got to show logs, screenshots and so on showing this, and when you can, youl need to explain why. Now expect this to be a mature discussion and your claims will be challenged, mostly by the rangers your trying to nerf. Here is one example, if you say Physical Defense is OP, because we dont have full buffs/buffbotts with tons of hp and damage. Well an arguement agenst that would be, 12% PD is stronger when you have more HP when fully buffed, while without those buffs its actualy weaker, and its just 12%. Unlike something like Viper, where on live, you have most enemys with alot more HP with buffbotting and on uthgard players have alot less HP, which makes a Viper dot much more effective.

So here you go, why do you think the Ranger is OP, please be mature and be detailed, if you really think is not right, if you do not, then we will still look at these complaints as someone just upset because they died. And dont forget, each claim will be challenged, so be mature about it, so we dont get this locked. Id like all this ranger bashing to be put into detail and fiqured if its legit or not, id hate to see custom nerfing, based on nothing but upset Assasins... i mean players.

How do you mean your question to be read? Are you asking what causes us to believe Rangers are OP? or Why do we think Uth staff has decided its working as intended or...?

I think rangers are overpowered because I look at Rectors stats, why should there be so many rangers lately if they where not overpowered?

On the other hand, when exactly did rangers start to get OP? What was changed, and when? I have played here since jan/feb -2010 smth and I dont think there has been a change to ranger since then?

I guess, its just the problem with PD4-5 and no leg. weapons...

ranger is a range class normally (bow)

so how many rangers have high bow spec? i guess 99% are melee speced... so something seems to be wrong.

so i dont understand this whole issue... what comes next... armsmen and infiltrator with full x-bow spec? )

if u look at the facts then the only conclusion must be... there is something wrong with ranger melee dmg in combination with pd ra. Maybe not the dmg it self but the ranger (classic setup with NF resis (pd)) and the server setup do not seem to be balanced.

I dont play any stealther, but im kind of fed up.... that this topic pops up each day in this forum, and no solution is visible.... wether it gets kind of ignored. (maybe on purpose?)

stealther like to play solo most of the time ( there are exceptions ofc) so if balance of toons in stealther community is not given... ppl will stop playing it.

But im just a noob who has not really a clue about mechanisms on uthgard... so here my 2 cents

with regards

Doomatix (dark rm)/pestilenca (shaman not bonedancer!)

PS: there were always fotm classes... and ppl jumped from fotm class to fotm class after each patch

The question is, for those who believe Rangers are OP, why do you think they are, and explain why.

And i think this OP complaining first started when we went to OF, and slowly the Ranger community grew, because of a few using Volley at AMG. More and More come out to AMG. Now there was tons of rangers, then volley got fixed/nerfed or what ever. So oviously people are not going to delete there rangers, so they ether respec from full bow to hybrid or full melee, some still full bow. Then there was complaints about PD being OP, so that kinda tells everyone, get PD and be in god mode, according to the forums. So on top of the hardcore rangers who are experienced, plus mass rangers who assist, that turns into what we have been getting. There isnt tons of rangers, because of a change, it was because of the zone change to OF and then the help of complaining that grew the ranger pop. Monkey see monkey do.

And yes PD could have some factor because there is no Leg weapons, but dont forget AoM RA. Also the hunter and scout both can have PD, along with some other classes/casters, but its the ranger who is being singled out as too strong with PD. And dont forget it costs 20 RA pts for PD4, and 34 for PD5, while an enemy can get more defenses or MoPain and so on to make up for the loss.

For breaking pd5, a sb/inf has to spend 30 points for viper3 ^^

Yep, that is how you counter a strong RA that someone spent for. 20 or 34 for PD, 15 or 30 Pts for Viper 2 or 3 to counter. Just amagine vipers power if PD wasnt bought. Not only will you be hit hard, but that ticking viper will also do 50 % of your life in no time. And if its applyed on multi weapons, makes a nice intent DD/re-apply.

So eclipsed , if you want to kill a ranger with a sb , you MUST be an unskill viper3 ?:) you know dude , rangers is not the only class in daoc , and some solo non-stealthed players don't want to be raped by viper3 /win like you and your pd4.

Ranger are stealthed mercenary : with blade spec they hit more than a merc on me because of buff & add dmg ( i mean it , rangers hits me for 160/170 ) + stunning flurry at rr5 , ubba fun when they run in a grp
rr5 unpurgable => 2 perf : youpi !

PD MUST be a pure casters ras , first pd was for cloth wearer class , and they change it for pure caster class because of friar & valewalker .

PD + IP is like sorcerer rr5 + moc .. it's just NOT playable. that's a fact , a ranger with pd 4 & ip2 up CANNOT lose a 1v1 with any tank.. or you just too bad

Btw stop speak about viper , because rangers aren't overpowered only agains't assassins. and personally i would love to remove pd & viper

Tuttar wrote:On the other hand, when exactly did rangers start to get OP? What was changed, and when? I have played here since jan/feb -2010 smth and I dont think there has been a change to ranger since then?

Rangers have been OP for a long time. Last summer I warned everyone about this class, but my warnings were dismissed by the staff and by other players. Now there's a new Ranger QQ thread made every day.

I also warned everyone about poison-botting long before it became an actual problem. Look what happened. Now people are screaming about poison spam from non-poison classes.

I also told the staff that there was something wrong with melee balance and as it turns out defense penetration on Uthgard is completely broken and not Live-like at all. Which means the melee mechanics on Uthgard are fundamentally flawed and every melee class here is broken.

I wonder how many more times I'll have to prove myself right before people will start to listen? I've only had the best intentions for this server.

I think if you read yesterdays post, and importantly Noirs post form a few weeks ago where Nerf stated as a a ranger he recognised quite clearly they were op and why, then you have your answer.

This post where you mention Vip3 very early seems to me to be a smokescreen.

Seyha has mentioned every which way a ranger is op in frank reasonable ways, read his posts.

This pretence that somehow people havent pointed out why they are op is funny - gg.

Well, I got a ranger for myself and i dont think that PD is as strong as IP. That was the second RA i took after purge and it simply rocks. Assassins dont have IP so its clearly a disadvantage for them.

Due to long route to amg you have IP nearly everytime ready.

ok my 2 cents from a infi/minstrel player ...

i cannot win against a ranger with pd and ip up with my minstrel its close sometimes but most u dont even have a chance maybe if i can dd from horse then mezz then dd then stun etc but as some might know rangers nearly never come alone so that reduces my chance to win a fight even more... and maybe i win 1/20 fights when he fumbles or i have ip up and he doesn't or whatever ... ^^

with my infi its just a joke ... i quitted thid like 2 weeks ago and still i stuck on 4l2 cause its nearly impossible even to find a 1 on 1 or anything else than a ranger that critshots me out of stealth or just owns me hard out of stealth then kill me with like 5 hits in mele ...when i try to go through a xmg
even viper3 doesn't work cause most of the ranger are having so easy rps they can easily efford ip2 and stuff and healpots etc ...

i stopped playing my infi now cause this just isn't fun if u stuck and stuck and see other people kill u with just no efford and getting stronger and stronger ... in thid u had some rangers with no perfect sc so u had a chance ... other ones like timeout if i remember the name right i just got owned hard everytime ... hey but that's okay as long as u have a chance against other ppl ... so the fun is just completely gone and just frusttration left ... i dont expect to kill anything onehit or own hard i just want to have a fair chance .... as long as there is no change i will only log my infi df and try to kill some lvlers if i can get through all the rangers with mos ;>

well if the staff is not willing to change anything i can just hope that more ppl like me just quit rvr until something change ... cause it wont change anything if there are like 20 rr8+ rangers out that will still own everyone even if pd is removed ...

and why ranger is op? cause this is a non bb server they have selfbuffs, dmg add , pd , mos , ip ... in combination its just death for any stealther and cause they have a dual weapon spec with a anytimer stun from side which most of them hit perfectly because of strafing and u cant avoid it even if i walk back and push on face like hell.... and dont forget they never come alone ... i got to go to work now ... and sorry for my english i was in hurry

massivmampfer wrote:Well, I got a ranger for myself and i dont think that PD is as strong as IP. That was the second RA i took after purge and it simply rocks. Assassins dont have IP so its clearly a disadvantage for them.

Due to long route to amg you have IP nearly everytime ready.

totally agree

Tupfer wrote:I dont play any stealther, but im kind of fed up.... that this topic pops up each day in this forum, and no solution is visible.... wether it gets kind of ignored. (maybe on purpose?)

if i ever read a topic name like: "how to kill a ranger? plz tell me (help)"

i would have gladly responded ,... but its too funny watching people that
that keep bumping their head against a wall... claiming something that is just not true , caused by not using all its toons abilities

i guess someone has to write a "how to kill a ranger" guide to make this stop

well ,its not me and not for Noir

if ppl dont wanna learn ,. they just gotta get along with what they know

a ranger nerf is just not needed ,...because a ranger nerf will just not make the RangerQQ-poster learn/ask people/ make them open minded

sry noir , when you got accidently invited to our guild you had a guild full rangers/stealthers telling you how to kill a ranger ,.. you just ignored them ,..

nothing more to say

Feelit wrote:

massivmampfer wrote:Well, I got a ranger for myself and i dont think that PD is as strong as IP. That was the second RA i took after purge and it simply rocks. Assassins dont have IP so its clearly a disadvantage for them.

Due to long route to amg you have IP nearly everytime ready.

totally agree

Tupfer wrote:I dont play any stealther, but im kind of fed up.... that this topic pops up each day in this forum, and no solution is visible.... wether it gets kind of ignored. (maybe on purpose?)

if i ever read a topic name like: "how to kill a ranger? plz tell me (help)"

i would have gladly responded ,... but its too funny watching people that
that keep bumping their head against a wall... claiming something that is just not true , caused by not using all its toons abilities

i guess someone has to write a "how to kill a ranger" guide to make this stop

well ,its not me and not for Noir

if ppl dont wanna learn ,. they just gotta get along with what they know

a ranger nerf is just not needed ,...because a ranger nerf will just not make the RangerQQ-poster learn/ask people/ make them open minded

sry noir , when you got accidently invited to our guild you had a guild full rangers/stealthers telling you how to kill a ranger ,.. you just ignored them ,..

nothing more to say

Bait - smokescreen - meaningless - thanks for your input where u agree at the start other assasins are at a disadvantage, then you immediately disagree. There isnt a way to kill a ranger in a reasonable percentage of fights, the ranger will win most everytime, this has been explained by the people who experience this, as a ranger your comments are useless - ofc u feel a ranger is fine, I would feel a ranger is fine if i won every fight and could farm arpees regularly.