Jarysa wrote:Yeah, i´ve actually played DAoC before, thanks.
What´s your point? Hardly matters wether it´s two zerks or bms hitting you while charged. You´re gonna need good heals or BoF3 to survive.

except that spike dmg wise Zerk>>>>>>>>>BM

most mid grps run with atleast Skald dmg add or rm dmg add, and if they have a skald AoG.

most hibs don't have dmg adds(except personal charges) or AoG.

and tripple wield is a joke here
whereas vendo just gets more powerful with charge

Jarysa wrote:Yeah, i´ve actually played DAoC before, thanks.
What´s your point? Hardly matters wether it´s two zerks or bms hitting you while charged. You´re gonna need good heals or BoF3 to survive.

two vendo zerkers can kill a target that is receiving heals which would have saved a target 2 BMs were attacking.

Jarysa wrote:That´s neither true nor even possible. The way LA and CD work makes zerks benifit more from RR, tho.

Yes it is true and its not that complicated of math to understand either;


LA: Base damage * (.625 + .0034 * LA)

DW: 100% base damage with 25% + .68% * CD/DW offhand fire rate


those 2 equations add up to equal damage over time. do the math if you don't believe me, for any spec you'll have equal damage because LA can't hit 100%.


here's a quick example.

100 base damage for both hands unmodified.


RR10 zerker so 50+20 LA, RR10 BM so 50+20 CD.

Zerker will do [70*.0034+.625] 86.3% of base damage with 70 LA, or 86.3 damage per hand. 86.3 X 2 = 172.6 damage

BM will do 100 base damage mainhand and will have a [70*.68+25%] 72.6% chance of the offhand to hit for 100 damage.

72.6% chance to do 100 offhand damage = 72.6 offhand damage on average

100 + 72.6 = 172.6, same EXACT damage as the zerker with LA.


Run the numbers for RR5, it will be the same (but lower), run it for RR12, they will still be equal.

Neju wrote:most mids don't have dmg adds(except personal charges) or AoG.

Hibs, right? ^^

good eyes

Neju wrote:good eyes

Nah, I just play a BM myself and thought "Hey, that's me!".

Force wrote:

Jarysa wrote:Yeah, i´ve actually played DAoC before, thanks.
What´s your point? Hardly matters wether it´s two zerks or bms hitting you while charged. You´re gonna need good heals or BoF3 to survive.

two vendo zerkers can kill a target that is receiving heals which would have saved a target 2 BMs were attacking.

Jarysa wrote:That´s neither true nor even possible. The way LA and CD work makes zerks benifit more from RR, tho.

Yes it is true and its not that complicated of math to understand either;


LA: Base damage * (.625 + .0034 * LA)

DW: 100% base damage with 25% + .68% * CD/DW offhand fire rate


those 2 equations add up to equal damage over time. do the math if you don't believe me, for any spec you'll have equal damage because LA can't hit 100%.


here's a quick example.

100 base damage for both hands unmodified.


RR10 zerker so 50+20 LA, RR10 BM so 50+20 CD.

Zerker will do [70*.0034+.625] 86.3% of base damage with 70 LA, or 86.3 damage per hand. 86.3 X 2 = 172.6 damage

BM will do 100 base damage mainhand and will have a [70*.68+25%] 72.6% chance of the offhand to hit for 100 damage.

72.6% chance to do 100 offhand damage = 72.6 offhand damage on average

100 + 72.6 = 172.6, same EXACT damage as the zerker with LA.


Run the numbers for RR5, it will be the same (but lower), run it for RR12, they will still be equal.

Don´t pull the highschool-maths card on me. I STUDY MATHS.

Add a style to that equation and you´ll see you´re wrong. Or weaponspeed with a faster offhand.

Wrong, style damage is calculated from base damage without modifacation from la spec, ever since about 8 years ago when a dev found the error in the LA coding and corrected it (without lowering the artificially high GR styles of LA which were compensating for the style dmg mod).

Add a style modifier to the numbers an you'll see it's the same, unless you mean LA has higher growth rates, which I already pointed out. We hav also already pointed out that mids will swing faster, but the equations governing the basic mechanics of the damage which cd and dw do are equal to LA. It's external factors (mostly celerity and vendo) that push their dps so far ahead.

Force wrote:Wrong, style damage is calculated from base damage without modifacation from la spec, ever since about 8 years ago when a dev found the error in the LA coding and corrected it (without lowering the artificially high GR styles of LA which were compensating for the style dmg mod).

Add a style modifier to the numbers an you'll see it's the same, unless you mean LA has higher growth rates, which I already pointed out. We hav also already pointed out that mids will swing faster, but the equations governing the basic mechanics of the damage which cd and dw do are equal to LA. It's external factors (mostly celerity and vendo) that push their dps so far ahead.

This is correct. Here is a nice article that explains the mechanics of LA and DW.


Base damage and style damage are exactle the same.

A difference does appear when using slow mainhand and fast offhand while using styles. Both DW and LA get additional dps in that case but LA gets slightly more benefit.

When it comes to zerks vs mercs in groups, the zerks advantage is mids advantage which is celerity. Vendo is better than tricks too, since tricks doesn't help a merc tear down casters and healers.

[url]
http://web.archive.org/web/200410101939 ... Wield.html[/url]

Zerk>bm>merc

no argument

Force wrote:Wrong, style damage is calculated from base damage without modifacation from la spec, ever since about 8 years ago when a dev found the error in the LA coding and corrected it (without lowering the artificially high GR styles of LA which were compensating for the style dmg mod).

That´s not true in the standard DoL code. I neither have access to uthgards code nor to a zerk to test it tho.

I like that my zerker already has a 1.0 GR back positional at lvl 30, kind of ridiculous. Zerker GR's >>> merc GR's >>>> bm GR's

And people say zerker dmg without vendo or celerity up is equal to bms, but not really. Their GR's are way higher then BMs, it would be like BMs spamming supernova from behind all the time and using their side style as an anytime. The difference between supernova and lets say the back snare is usually about 50-100 dmg, which is huge.

Then again bms can slam to get any positional they want off so thats cool and what not but then if i say this I'm going to have those random mids come in here and claim that bms are bad on hib because they all roll celts and use shield spec!

BM and merc damage isn't bad at all (if played/speeced right), it's zerker damage that's ridiculously high + doesn't require any effort to do so.

Imo: group setup: zerker, merc, bm.

solo setup: merc, bm, zerker

enjoy

I forgot to even ask, where does savage sit as well? evade/parry/haste buffs sound nice for solo rvr with melee resist buffs

Sahaqiel2009 wrote:I forgot to even ask, where does savage sit as well? evade/parry/haste buffs sound nice for solo rvr with melee resist buffs

with no defense penetration, shield spec will absorb around 2/3+ of your attacks. Assasins will evade 1/2 of your attacks...etc

if you find someone without serious defense you can kill them quickly. But a pally guarding your target will drop your dps by more than 50%.

The buffs are nice but in 1v1 if the fight lasts more than 15 seconds they can end up killing you. Savages are also on the wrong table here.

They are good for groups just be mindful of their limitations if you play one.