It always makes me ponder how people simply say 8 vs 8 -> skill.

I would agree with you that zergs dont improve skill, but only when there is big differents in numbers. Especially in a chaotic zerg you can show how good you really are. Still being organized in a zerg for example is, in my eyes, much more respectable then winning a 8 vs 8.

And honestly: I played a lot of solo and group on Uthgard but I really had most fun in zergs because the outcome is simply incalculable. Group vs group was nearly always the same.

I see your point on zergs.

I didn't meant that 8v8=>Skill but a 8v8 fight improve your skill more than a zerg. Me and my group were in the huge inc at AMG and I had no fun. Now, i'm not saying that nobody has fun in zergs, but that inc (We were 2fg, maybe 2fg and a half) was just a rumble. Hitting the spreadheal button because my group is taking too much damage or dying with 7 albs on me (And really happened yesterday), then on the pac healer etc. is not what i call fun. 3fg vs 3fg could be fun? Yes. Could be. If you have the numbers.

But see, there are a lot of "If" and "could" there.

The great inc at amg i descriped above didn't start of as a zerg fight, we were 1 fg, adding in a fight between amg and silo of hibs vs albs (yes we add such fights), while we fought another 2 fg albs came down from amg, another grp mids came in, then 2 fg hibs came from breifine and so on...

we pushed through amg to get the albs in the middle, worked fine then more albs from behind we pushed through the hibs to bring them in the middle, worked, pushed back through amg as more hibs came... we were half grp down rest without mana and faced obvious death as more mids rushed in, which gave us the time to rezz, rebuff, use mana pots and RA's, while the mids got killed, and go back in the fight.. and in the end we were the last grp right where the fight had begun.

That was fantastic fun, and it needed a lot of communication, skill and lots of luck for sure.

I would never say the most skilled grp won the fight (we lost at least 50% 8vs8 yesterday, due to not so good setup), but we definatly acted clever. Pushed in the right moment, pulled out right, had lots of luck.
These are fights you still remember in maybe one year, while you have forgotten most 8vs8 the next day.

holsten-knight wrote:That was fantastic fun, and it needed a lot of communication, skill and lots of luck for sure.

It just needed luck and alot of amg adding.

holsten-knight wrote:These are fights you still remember in maybe one year, while you have forgotten most 8vs8 the next day.

These are the fights that make grps log in frustration, memorable, maybe, but certainly not in a good way.

Welcome back in 2003 and the big pile up at amg. zerg, add, die, retry. I'd suggest 8v8 players to decide on a zone outside of hibernia frontier.

Rizla wrote:Welcome back in 2003 and the big pile up at amg. zerg, add, die, retry. I'd suggest 8v8 players to decide on a zone outside of hibernia frontier.

It's actually quite possible with the casual RvR solution coming, the zerging/adding at MGs will actually increase.

Odin's Gate as "main 8v8 zone" would be the best option imo since mids tend to run speed 6 anyway and Hadrian's Wall is a pain to get to in general for Albs. Not to mention the snow in Odin's is just awesome.


Can only hope for things to pan out this way I'd say. The less higher RR gank grps in Emain, the more fun for the people in Emain, zerging or not. And of course hopefully more fun for the 8v8 players aswell.

Zarkor wrote:Can only hope for things to pan out this way I'd say. The less higher RR gank grps in Emain, the more fun for the people in Emain, zerging or not. And of course hopefully more fun for the 8v8 players aswell.

Very close to what i expect "optimized" OF to bring, the question is, will it be enough? I have my doubts, though this seems at least more fun then what we have now.

I do still prefer the blend of playstiles on one map instead of 3 seperated frontiers having different flavours on them.

How is getting zerged any better than getting ganked by a High RR 8 man?

Why will high RR set groups move to Odins when Emain guarantees inc?

Seyha wrote:How is getting zerged any better than getting ganked by a High RR 8 man?

Why will high RR set groups move to Odins when Emain guarantees inc?

because they claim to fight for the awesome 8v8 fight and not for the rps / incs

IMO Staff cant FIX OF RvR. Only the players can do that. We have choices today as to where to RvR and how to RvR. We will still have choices after the fix. Many people will choose to RvR in a style that upsets other players. Staff are not gods to change human nature.

Gil wrote:IMO Staff cant FIX OF RvR. Only the players can do that. We have choices today as to where to RvR and how to RvR. We will still have choices after the fix. Many people will choose to RvR in a style that upsets other players. Staff are not gods to change human nature.

Agree

if we truely want a different rvr situation we as the players have to make a choice..

soloers have done this and is starting slowly to move to odins (was some good action there yesterday for solos)
zergs still move to emain..

now the time for those who QQ about adds and not getting 8v8 to move to hadrians..


and rizla... agramon was nothing near perfect.. believe me the only reason why there was all playstyles was because there was no alternative places to go.. solos HAD to be in the same zone as zergs and 8v8s and small grp fights..

personally I remember a lot of times where I had to either quit or move far away from the action to get 1v1s on my NS.. how is this different from moving to odins? personally I can't see a difference besides that in OF I can actually move 100% away from those I don't plan to rvr with.. which imo is good if players just start organizing themselves after their prefered playstyle..

hib rvrzone = RVR
alb rvrzone = 8v8
mid rvrzone = 1v1

I fully agree with holsten, those fights are great and are what makes DAOC so much fun.

those 8men groups that /quit when they loose because of they beeing outnumbered...go ahead i wont miss you. i know to many players that refuse to go rvr because of the constant complaining of other players.

the 8mens constantly complain about either no action or to much action. a good 8men doesnt fear adds, they should see adds as a chance to even improve them self in fights against the odds.

nixian wrote:hib rvrzone = RVR
alb rvrzone = 8v8
mid rvrzone = 1v1

This could be good, but we know that we can't force people to listen this rules. I hope that most of them can agree with this solution; but as we see 3+ groups ganking soloers in Odins, in the same way we wil see black adders and rangers group from noobernia adding 8vs8 inc in Hadrians.

However i think we can give this idea a chance.

true we can't tell people not to go those places..

however if there is a common idea between players who prefer that kind of playstyle there will be a higher % of likeminded people..

so there may be 3 grps hunting solos in odins

but in return there is also 20 solo players who is out there.. this is much better than having 5 grps in emain and 2 solos out.. (from a solo players perspective)

Hadrians is terrible for roaming. A more likely outcome would be 8 mans moving into Odins with solo's getting bumped to Hadrians.

Either way this is all wishful thinking. Most groups will follow the death spam and that death spam will come primarily from Emain. A few 8 mans will make the long journey to Svasud Faste but most people don't have the patience for this. If a group of players spend an hour roaming an empty zone they're going to get frustrated and bored. Then they will head back to Emain.

People hate Emain because it's so repetitive and boring but it's also the most efficient design. It's easy to find the inc because everyone is funneled down the same path and your view is unrestricted.

Then just do it like that:

Set up an IRC Channel, get an IRC-Bot where every grp who uses the 8vs8 Zone can sign up.
->Simple Command like: /query [Botname] add [Realm] [GRP-Name]
The Bot updates the Topic and spams every 2-3 minutes who's in the zone.
So everybody who is up to some 8vs8 action can see if theres any grp roaming in the 8vs8 zone.

Worked fine for years on Live -> Avalon