Seyha wrote:
If you need to use an active to win a fight then you will use that active. Under normal circumstances no one will hold back on using an active if the alternative is death.

I disagree, for example I won't use IP against someone in a close fight unless they use it. To use IP to determine the outcome of a fight that would have come down to the wire is a waste imo. it should be used to turn the tide in a fight you normally wouldn't have stood a chance.

the idea being you can squeak out wins most the time without the active, and twice an hour you can win a fight you normally would have been destroyed in.


relying on iwin buttons for every encounter is lame.

Force wrote:the idea being you can squeak out wins most the time without the active, and twice an hour you can win a fight you normally would have been destroyed in.


relying on iwin buttons for every encounter is lame.

I have to agree with you.
This is even more evident in full group rvr.
People always have high value active ra's up in every single fight.

What is the point to use something if an always-up-active-ra will just nullify it.


Just as an example.
It is very hard to get in stun as a hunter, compared to any other stealther (maybe except slash infils). And when you finally land the stun, you are garanteed that the stun will get purged instantly, since the counterpart have the NF version of Purge, that is allways up.

So what you struggle with to land, dont give you any advantage, it only gives the other part a 25 second immunity to stun, and a disadvantage if he encounter another battle within 5 min, but that is none of your consern.

Braxis wrote:

Seyha wrote:Talk about being short-sighted. Since cost/benefit effects everyone equally how is it an issue? So you only want 3 ranks in a passive ability. Well, so does everyone else.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about.
I want all the ranks to be a viable options, as opposed to just 2-3...

Sry to destroy you dreams, but with OF only det-tanks will be playable.
In fact you will only see pallys,mercs, savages, warriors, BMs and Heroes.
Pretty much the same as now, only those zerks will change to savages, thats all. have fun to try a castergroup without PD, BoF, purge2-3, DI.

We as Alb will just group 2 Ministrel and delete that theurg. 30sek unbreakable Speed5 every 15 mins will end in a huge whinewave i promise. ahh dont forget the 2 times 50% bof. We will get the ultimative godmode.

Liss wrote:

Force wrote:the idea being you can squeak out wins most the time without the active, and twice an hour you can win a fight you normally would have been destroyed in.


relying on iwin buttons for every encounter is lame.

I have to agree with you.
This is even more evident in full group rvr.
People always have high value active ra's up in every single fight.

What is the point to use something if an always-up-active-ra will just nullify it.


Just as an example.
It is very hard to get in stun as a hunter, compared to any other stealther (maybe except slash infils). And when you finally land the stun, you are garanteed that the stun will get purged instantly, since the counterpart have the NF version of Purge, that is allways up.

So what you struggle with to land, dont give you any advantage, it only gives the other part a 25 second immunity to stun, and a disadvantage if he encounter another battle within 5 min, but that is none of your consern.

Completely agreed. This is also one of the reasons solo casters are rare or even inexistant. They usually just don't stand a real chance with the current setting.

In the right condition (better casual RvR environment in OF), having casters join the solo/smallman action would only improve it imo.

Liss wrote:

Force wrote:the idea being you can squeak out wins most the time without the active, and twice an hour you can win a fight you normally would have been destroyed in.


relying on iwin buttons for every encounter is lame.

I have to agree with you.
This is even more evident in full group rvr.
People always have high value active ra's up in every single fight.

What is the point to use something if an always-up-active-ra will just nullify it.

Just as an example.
It is very hard to get in stun as a hunter, compared to any other stealther (maybe except slash infils). And when you finally land the stun, you are garanteed that the stun will get purged instantly, since the counterpart have the NF version of Purge, that is allways up.

So what you struggle with to land, dont give you any advantage, it only gives the other part a 25 second immunity to stun, and a disadvantage if he encounter another battle within 5 min, but that is none of your consern.

Another view on this is: Stun is lame. Mezz is lame. Its no skill at all to click on a button which can complete disable a character for a long time. Its just a class feature which is overpowered as hell. People cried river of tears about ovpowered cc in daoc. Mythic did something against that.

There is no other MMO and never ever will be one in which the CC is so overpowered like here.

Now you see, the real gamebraking overpowered i-win buttons are Mezz and Stun. Purge just helps to act again.

Ask Yourself: what fights do you prefer?
1. If you wtfpwn someone because you facereolled over your stun button? or
2. if you enemy purges and you still win this fight closely?

If you choose number 1 you failed at the "lamer test"

Zarkor wrote:Completely agreed. This is also one of the reasons solo casters are rare or even inexistant. They usually just don't stand a real chance with the current setting.

In the right condition (better casual RvR environment in OF), having casters join the solo/smallman action would only improve it imo.

Solo casters wont even stand a chance with OF too.
They are just fodder to assasins or dettanks, which will be the only people you will find solo. Maybe as moc-lifedrain caster or eld you will have a chance and atm they are better solo then they would be with OF RAs.

Tirax wrote:Another view on this is: Stun is lame. Mezz is lame. Its no skill at all to click on a button which can complete disable a character for a long time. Its just a class feature which is overpowered as hell. People cried river of tears about ovpowered cc in daoc. Mythic did something against that.

There is no other MMO and never ever will be one in which the CC is so overpowered like here.

Now you see, the real gamebraking overpowered i-win buttons are Mezz and Stun. Purge just helps to act again.

It's only overpowered when you allow it to be so. Every character has a form of CC, use it to beat your oponent and stop whining about it. It's what makes DAoC RvR such a deep and challenging experience. If you don't like it, then DAoC isn't your game, but saying that powerful CC is a negative aspect of the game is just ridiculous. Then you might aswell whine about hard interrupts, they can completely disable chars for a long time too. Not to mention especially with weak CC.

There's a good reason why it's so strong in DAoC, and it's even more important in a classic setting. In my opinion this is actually a reason FOR of RAs rather than against.

Tirax wrote:Solo casters wont even stand a chance with OF too.
They are just fodder to assasins or dettanks, which will be the only people you will find solo. Maybe as moc-lifedrain caster or eld you will have a chance and atm they are better solo then they would be with OF RAs.

Give me a break. Casters rely on their CC and castspeed to beat their opponents. Both are in a poor state on Uthgard, especially when it comes to solo RvR. Not to mention Charge tanks are a sure death for casters.

Zarkor wrote:

Tirax wrote:Another view on this is: Stun is lame. Mezz is lame. Its no skill at all to click on a button which can complete disable a character for a long time. Its just a class feature which is overpowered as hell. People cried river of tears about ovpowered cc in daoc. Mythic did something against that.

There is no other MMO and never ever will be one in which the CC is so overpowered like here.

Now you see, the real gamebraking overpowered i-win buttons are Mezz and Stun. Purge just helps to act again.

It's only overpowered when you allow it to be so. Every character has a form of CC, use it to beat your oponent and stop whining about it. It's what makes DAoC RvR such a deep and challenging experience. If you don't like it, then DAoC isn't your game, but saying that powerful CC is a negative aspect of the game is just ridiculous. Then you might aswell whine about hard interrupts, they can completely disable chars for a long time too. Not to mention especially with weak CC.

There's a good reason why it's so strong in DAoC, and it's even more important in a classic setting. In my opinion this is actually a reason FOR of RAs rather than against.

Tirax wrote:Solo casters wont even stand a chance with OF too.
They are just fodder to assasins or dettanks, which will be the only people you will find solo. Maybe as moc-lifedrain caster or eld you will have a chance and atm they are better solo then they would be with OF RAs.

Give me a break. Casters rely on their CC and castspeed to beat their opponents. Both are in a poor state on Uthgard, especially when it comes to solo RvR. Not to mention Charge tanks are a sure death for casters.

How exactly are you going to avoid my ministrels instant 9 sek stun?
and how do i use my anytime stun on my friar/Warden again?

Stun and mezz are ridicoulus, period. Mythic recognized that. You for some strange reason do not. Did you even played in classsic OF?
It was totally a waste of time without a well coordinated group. No place for casual players. Farming 2-3 groups casuals was fun thats for sure, but only if you were on the right side. This totally killed RvR on my server until NF came.

I never saw casters besides sorcs and elds+enchs.
The only thing i remember are full-tank groups killing casters in seconds with thier assistrains and casters, except for pbaoe did no dmg at all on full sced targets with resist-buffs.

Now ask yourself again, why mythic brought Bodyguard, grapple, resist-pierce, physical defense, sorc+eld rr5 abillyties into this game.

BTW: i have fun playing daoc because its not very challenging and i have classes with overpowered abillitys in this game. I can complete disable a caster with pressing the stick button, i can kill people with just pressinsg the button 1 from my keyboard. Thats pretty funny, but challenging and deep? Oh lol.

In case you haven't noticed, Uthgard is a classic server. We don't have ToA to balance out NF RAs and it won't come either. As long as that's the case, I prefer RvR that evolves around CC rather than RvR that's marked by an incomplete NF RA setting.

this thread turned into an offtopic trollfest :O

Astealoth wrote:this forum turned into an offtopic trollfest :O

Fixed that for you

Lev wrote:we should really quit the ranger QQ. i say this as a pure midgard player.

i play various classes, one being a SB. from the view of a SB the ranger is the class of doom. by design this sould be merc and bm, but they are a lot easier, due to various reasons (need to spec det and charge, vanish if something happens, no pd, no selfbuffs, visible, etc). most other classes just stand a chance if purge is not ready. this leaving rangers as the only class of doom for the SB and having one such class is ok for me, even if it's the wrong one here on uthgard.

i have a RR5 hunter too, but i better not view things out of his perspective. we would have to name the classes which are not classes of doom to be effective.

the ranger maybe needs a nerfing, but this is not achieved through QQ. do tests and bring proof.

anyway.
back on topic.
You make a great point about every class having a so called "Doom" class.
however there is a flaw to what you are thinking, imo.

The problem is there is only a few ways for archers to avoid a ranger (Doom class )
1) wait for camo
2) dont rvr
3) zerg

for an assassin you have
1) don't rvr
2) Zerg

Having a "Doom" class is fine, however if you have no means to realistically avoid it then there is a problem.


for assassin you hav zero counters to mos, there is no running, vanish is worthless.
I have a 50 hunter and a 50 SB. the only time my SB lasts more than 30 mins in DF is if hibs have been cleared for hours and alb has DF, or for some odd reason there are no rangers.

My hunter on the other hand does much better because I wait for camo after every kill. This is fine, however its very annoying that my SB that is a much stronger class is so limited.

I been noticing a ton of rangers leveling these days. its going to suck even more in a month.

I'm just pointing out the obvious here.

larsan wrote:anyway.
back on topic.
You make a great point about every class having a so called "Doom" class.
however there is a flaw to what you are thinking, imo.

The problem is there is only a few ways for archers to avoid a ranger (Doom class )
1) wait for camo
2) dont rvr
3) zerg

for an assassin you have
1) don't rvr
2) Zerg

Having a "Doom" class is fine, however if you have no means to realistically avoid it then there is a problem.


for assassin you hav zero counters to mos, there is no running, vanish is worthless.
I have a 50 hunter and a 50 SB. the only time my SB lasts more than 30 mins in DF is if hibs have been cleared for hours and alb has DF, or for some odd reason there are no rangers.

My hunter on the other hand does much better because I wait for camo after every kill. This is fine, however its very annoying that my SB that is a much stronger class is so limited.

I been noticing a ton of rangers leveling these days. its going to suck even more in a month.

I'm just pointing out the obvious here.

You should talk to Jig or Vixlia how about playing ur SB to handle rangers. Jig is just rr4 but performs good, even thou he camps hourse route. Will be tough as hell at rr6+. Vixlia i never manage to kill before he slips away from me. Only plays in df also and always manage to stay alive. Taught i had him last time but got add from kobil, darn he hits hard.

If old ras will come, no more rangers on uthgard...Everybody know that ranger is a noobish class, so what the matter?

If u meet a ranger's train just type /quit and they will get bored...

1 vs 1 melee ranger is easy to kill with an assassin (not to easy but fair enough)...no chance vs bow spec and mos 5...with a critical shot 1/2 of hp less and then they run away with speed...

Byez

I was told repeatedly by Nixian that rangers arent op.....Why does everyone else thnk they are...???

Stressed wrote:I was told repeatedly by Nixian that rangers arent op.....Why does everyone else thnk they are...???

Of course Rangers aren't OP for Nixian. He doesn't have to fight them. If he actually had to adjust his play-style to account for a PD 4 stealth BM with IP 2, massive ranged damage, a speed shout, MoS, camouflage, and an infuriating cheap-shot RR5 he would be singing a different tune. Nightshades have it the easiest of any assassin in the stealth war specifically because they don't have to deal with Rangers.

That some one could take an objective look at the Ranger's ability set, equipment, weapons, and RAs and not come to the conclusion that it is imbalanced is mind-boggling.