Ronian wrote:ROFL, you are the only one adding others. And I have other chars than my Animist but you got a new member that fits to the old KT playstyle. Kill everything because he is new and needs his rps until he is rr8.

Now I can understand that the others dont need solo rps because they are already rr8 to rr10, like they did back than in the day.

I'm kinda confused, you talk about me like I am a kind of puppetteer who makes others do what I want, wich is kill soloers in your opinion. I said we don't kill solo/duo, well let me reprhase: we don't kill solo/duo beside stealthers and obviously adders.

I guess everyone who play with me knows how I make rps, try to ask them before imaging weird scenarios.

Ronian wrote:

Hedra wrote:Sure ronia, we would farm you everytime we see your little adder back, that doesn't mean we do the same thing with all solos ^^

ROFL, you are the only one adding others. And I have other chars than my Animist but you got a new member that fits to the old KT playstyle. Kill everything because he is new and needs his rps until he is rr8.

Now I can understand that the others dont need solo rps because they are already rr8 to rr10, like they did back than in the day.

Frustrated because we killed you ? Like I care, I've seen your arrow leech/rupt since agra so I won't hesitate any second to farm you :p

Just go whine in broad about KT like you do so well, or about our mercs dumping charge to kill you (while in fact he didn't have charge ^^)

vomi wrote:

Apoc315 wrote:What is killing the RvR for the "casual players" are the guild ganks like Anguish and Killer Tomatoes.

I don't wanna join you discussion, but I feel like I should reply you since you quoted Killer Tomatoes. We often run with randoms and low rrs (Ask guys from <NAP> for example, we often run with em since they were 4L5). We don't run set grp or stuff like that. Also KT is not invincible
We don't kill solos/duos, we don't add and we don't zerg but hey, keep blaming us if rvr on uthgard sucks.

No I didn't meant this. I'm sorry if you didn't understood what i were saying. I respect KT and Anguish, and i watch their fighst to learn more and improve myself.

I said that Ganks, running all the same 8man, or 6 or 7 are killing the RvR. Anguish and KT was just an example because they run more than others and they are in RvR most than others. My thought is this: Ganks kills the RvR cause they fight always togheter, they know each other, they know what the other members will do and when they'll do something. I play in Ganks and i'm not the kind of player that is frustrated if his enemy plays better than me. I try to learn from them, and many people can confirm this.

I don't want to spare more words on the KT/Anguish playstyle, this is not what i want to say. I want to say, hoping that you'll understand, that this kind of game - the ganks - kills the casual rvr of who doesn't play in ganks.

So the casual player that finds a group of ppl that he doesn't know, he doesn't know how they play, etc. can't compete with them. And that's how they have High RR in their guild... obviously they know how to play, ofc, but the "I-play-only-with-people-that-I-know" component is strong. This cuts off all the other players "unknowed" or "low RR".

And that's why imho there's only 1 fg per realm roaming Emain. The "gank-squad" kills every fgs, they wipe, they come back 2-3 times, then someone starts to whine and disband, then another one disbands, and the group falls apart. It's not a "fault" from who play always with each other, but this is the reason why emain is SO empty.

It's not because Emain is too big. It's because on this server works like this: To beat a gank you need to build another gank. Noone zergs, and if zerg, the entire realm want them to stop.

Casual groups from albion/hib are just fresh meat for us and we're RR6-7. Imagine for a group like KT that has 7-10RR, or worst, Anguish that runs 4-5 RR10+ in their setup, what this casual group are for them: Warm chocolate.

(P.S. I never saw Ronia adding on my fights and never saw him adding on someone else, and since i'm on this server from like 1 year, i doubt he adds on someone else without a reason)

Its funny how this aparent myth of KT not inviting anyone else then people from our inner circle has appeared.

I mean, yeah, if i make a grp and everyone is willing to come its gonna be a GG, but generally we never get that, so invite a few friends or randoms.

But i disagree about the Low rr or unknowing part. Plz be so kind and make an application. We dont really care about rr, if u can play to a semi ok level u have a high % of getting in....


Anyway, i do get ur point, as a pug it must be a ****** fighting us, and ul prolly end up loosing, and it can be depressing.

I grew up in the old alb days where GDRW, MB and BA ran GG-s, we were low rr and only managed noob pugs. Ofc we lost allwayz.
And im still here, now running the GGs and owning the pugs.
I guess what my point is, if ur active and dont give up easy ul make it @ the high rrs, if ur just a sunday player enjoying a pug, ye...uth sucks.

Sorry for the caps-lock lines, but i must be clear. Read this in a calm voice tone.

Keep talking about you. You. You. You. Stop it.

We know you're good. Repeating this is pointless. I said KT/Anguish Just. For. Example.

Why? Because you run togheter on albion more than other Alb-groups. Why Anguish? Because they run toghter with the same people more than other Mid-groups. And the Chosen from hib that switches 1-2 ppl in their group. 3 squads for 3 realms.

AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG DOING THIS.

Is it clear now?

BUT:

Playing always with each other grants you and advantage on the casual groups. Can you deny this?

Playing always witch each other OR switching some ppl (how many? 2?) grants your RR to go up faster than the RR of a casual group player. Can you deny this?

It's not because your guild is named "Blabla Something", is your playstyle that involves ppl that you know, or ppl that somebody else knows, THEN you invite someone else that you don't know. I do it in the first place. All the RvR population do this. Is it wrong? No. But this cuts off the others that to play spam in LFG channel "LF XYZ members to farm ABC mob/tajendi".

Now this is the problem of RvR population in Uthgard. THere's nobody's fault. Not yours, not anguish.

The discussion is on: NF or OF? Someone said that OF RvR population is less than NF population because Emain is too big. It's not the OF/NF it's because the great part of the players doesn't go in RvR because they don't want to suck for all their free time against the guild-gank squads.

(P.S. This afternoon i was in the group who killed many times the KT + random ppl in Emain. Vomi was there. And we killed them because my entire group knew each other playstyle, even if we weren't in the same Guild. This is just to "prove" my point)

Hedra wrote:

Ronian wrote:

Hedra wrote:Sure ronia, we would farm you everytime we see your little adder back, that doesn't mean we do the same thing with all solos ^^

ROFL, you are the only one adding others. And I have other chars than my Animist but you got a new member that fits to the old KT playstyle. Kill everything because he is new and needs his rps until he is rr8.

Now I can understand that the others dont need solo rps because they are already rr8 to rr10, like they did back than in the day.

Frustrated because we killed you ? Like I care, I've seen your arrow leech/rupt since agra so I won't hesitate any second to farm you :p

Just go whine in broad about KT like you do so well, or about our mercs dumping charge to kill you (while in fact he didn't have charge ^^)

Yes, thats why he wasnt effected by my sidestun And I dont like your adds because you destroy some of the rare 1on1 fights in emain.

Adding a fixed high rr grp cant be compared to adding a 1on1, but it is ok for me that you dont like me, because its for me the same.

Respectful guilds in albion: Rare, Warlords and of course ToT.

Believe it or not we do leave some soloers, but since you've been adding me since the day I got 50 on alb (apparently just because of my cloak), that's unlikely to happen with you, you know.
No point arguing about this here anyway, and looking respectful in your eyes is not really my concern.

well atm on uth if you ask all people everybody would like to have at least a slightly diffrent rvr type/setting towards all others so its nonsense to only ask for 2 but its nonsense to ask for all because than in this vote would be like 400 posibilitys and each with 1-2 votes

Apoc315 wrote:Sorry for the caps-lock lines, but i must be clear. Read this in a calm voice tone.

Keep talking about you. You. You. You. Stop it.

We know you're good. Repeating this is pointless. I said KT/Anguish Just. For. Example.

Why? Because you run togheter on albion more than other Alb-groups. Why Anguish? Because they run toghter with the same people more than other Mid-groups. And the Chosen from hib that switches 1-2 ppl in their group. 3 squads for 3 realms.

AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG DOING THIS.

Is it clear now?

BUT:

Playing always with each other grants you and advantage on the casual groups. Can you deny this?

Playing always witch each other OR switching some ppl (how many? 2?) grants your RR to go up faster than the RR of a casual group player. Can you deny this?

It's not because your guild is named "Blabla Something", is your playstyle that involves ppl that you know, or ppl that somebody else knows, THEN you invite someone else that you don't know. I do it in the first place. All the RvR population do this. Is it wrong? No. But this cuts off the others that to play spam in LFG channel "LF XYZ members to farm ABC mob/tajendi".

Now this is the problem of RvR population in Uthgard. THere's nobody's fault. Not yours, not anguish.

The discussion is on: NF or OF? Someone said that OF RvR population is less than NF population because Emain is too big. It's not the OF/NF it's because the great part of the players doesn't go in RvR because they don't want to suck for all their free time against the guild-gank squads.

(P.S. This afternoon i was in the group who killed many times the KT + random ppl in Emain. Vomi was there. And we killed them because my entire group knew each other playstyle, even if we weren't in the same Guild. This is just to "prove" my point)

Sure thing you prefer to invite people you know, and people you know they can play.
We often have to fill up at least 1-2 slots in our grp, for sure we look first in the circle of people we know and only if there is no one available look in lfg or like. But we don't care about RR, if someone plays good it's way more important than his RR.
And sometimes we have to take people we have never played with, and when they do good we will ask them again. But that is nothing uthgard special, that is how rvr community works since daoc release.

It is hard for casuals to find a place in good grps, but that has ever been this way, and i don't see a way to change this.

the only problem here on uthgard is that casuals don't dare to run more than 8-slot. So they have no chance to win, have no fun and stop doing rvr.
There is nothing wrong to win by numbers, it is not worse than win by skill, that is simply daoc.

holsten-knight wrote:the only problem here on uthgard is that casuals don't dare to run more than 8-slot. So they have no chance to win, have no fun and stop doing rvr.
There is nothing wrong to win by numbers, it is not worse than win by skill, that is simply daoc.

This is true, however it's not because they "don't dare". It's simply because it's impossible to find 8+ casuals who want to zerg in emain. Usually casual grps like that start off as a smallman, then grow to a zerg when they decide there's enough players to head to Emain.

The entire first step is simply missing. What's happening now is that some casuals grp up, head Odins for instance, get demotivated by the situation there, don't find any more players to join em and then quit RvRing for that time. The current situation has driven many casual players to either stealthers, PvE or BGs. The few that are still there trying to RvR simply don't find the support they should find. That's why you can't change this with just one measure here or there. You need a solid plan to create incentives for casual players not only to go out and RvR, but to realise that it's actually worth trying again. From the moment u get a critical amount of casual players, their action and fun will boost to such a level where it will only attract more of them instead of drive them off because there's no inc.

Apoc315 wrote:The discussion is on: NF or OF? Someone said that OF RvR population is less than NF population because Emain is too big. It's not the OF/NF it's because the great part of the players doesn't go in RvR because they don't want to suck for all their free time against the guild-gank squads.

Well avioiding them was an option in agramon.

Going solo was an option in agramon.

Going smallman was an option in agramon.

Not getting stealth zerged was an option in agramon.

Agramon was more (casual) playstlye friendly.

Need I go on?

Braxis wrote:

Apoc315 wrote:The discussion is on: NF or OF? Someone said that OF RvR population is less than NF population because Emain is too big. It's not the OF/NF it's because the great part of the players doesn't go in RvR because they don't want to suck for all their free time against the guild-gank squads.

Well avioiding them was an option in agramon.

Going solo was an option in agramon.

Going smallman was an option in agramon.

Not getting stealth zerged was an option in agramon.

Agramon was more (casual) playstlye friendly.

Need I go on?

and how is this not an option in the OF maps?

I can't see how the map is the reason for this.. I mean ofc, its not instant action as agramon was.. but that has been said many times is not what staff wants.. if agramon EVER came back.. it would not have any porting system and the like.. do you still want agramon? personally I don't..

Braxis wrote:

Apoc315 wrote:The discussion is on: NF or OF? Someone said that OF RvR population is less than NF population because Emain is too big. It's not the OF/NF it's because the great part of the players doesn't go in RvR because they don't want to suck for all their free time against the guild-gank squads.

Well avioiding them was an option in agramon.

Going solo was an option in agramon.

Going smallman was an option in agramon.

Not getting stealth zerged was an option in agramon.

Agramon was more (casual) playstlye friendly.

Need I go on?

That's all possible still in OF mate, the problem is that in OF, this is done by splitting up the zones in order to split up playstyles. Which basicly means you need enough players in RvR to populate several zones, which seems to be worked on at the moment. ^^

The 8v8 problem is a fact, like Holsten said. I personally love the 8v8, but you can do a 8v8 with similar RRs: an 8v8 of 4-5RR against a 6-8RR it's pure math; the RR4-5 gonna lose at 60%.

Now to increase the RR of "casual players" from all the 3 realms is to zerg, and the perfect zone to zerg is Emain. Who wants 8v8 because can do 8v8, goes Odin's.

Once, when Emain was so full of pro-guild squads we usually moved in Odin's Gate, where we had nice 8v8 with similar rank as ours (we were 4-5RR and enemies RR5+ max 6L). Now OGs is dead because.. ? Dunno. It's not, again, the damn zones. It's something else that could be found in the playstyle i said before.

So for the new/casual players that comes in RvR the only thing that they can do is Zerg. Keep raiding. DF RvR. Zerg again and so on until they know someone who plays like them, and start to play with, trying to make 8v8 fights with their RR opponents.

But this take time and will. If people leave the RvR scene because "I don't want to wipe because of other people faults in the incs" (And believe me the 75% of the RvR players does such stupid thoughts) or leave Thidranki at the RR3 (!), or want to be a "Pro and Strong player" from the first time he puts his nose outside the PK... well, if this kind of people don't change their minds it's gonna be always like this. With or without NF.

To do RvR you must have patience and wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, and wipe again before winning the 90% of your incs. But this is hard to accept.

Riassuming: the problem is people's mind. Not the zones!

Perhaps a smaller frontier would be ok. But the OF has one thing NF doesen't have that that is a continious transistion from the realm to the frontier zone. That makes Emain FEEL like Hibernia, Hadrians FEEL like Albion and Odins FEEL like it is Midgard.

Also, I think the relics are important. Most people it might be correct is saying they don't care about the benifits of having them or not having them, but as a realm, it is very much a pride issue and a strong motivator for RvR.

Relics are necessary.

Perhaps reduce each realm to 1 realm keep to defend and only 4 keeps in the frontier.

Also, as a side note, when NF was announced, I simply thought they would improve the keeps and leave the old lands. The NF keeps are nice. They are sometimes fun. If we could have NF keeps in the OF lands, that would be fun imo.