This is a problem that needs to be brought to the attention of the staff. DF has always been a tough RvR zone. That is part of its allure. The threat of RvR combat mixed with PvE is part of what makes the zone so exciting.

Recently DF has become a haven for OF zergs and powerful high RR groups who go there to troll lowbies for RPs. These players have become so dis-satisfied with combat in OF that the loss of DF for them is cause for celebration. They actually want their realm to lose DF because it means the RP gravy-train has arrived and they can spend the next hour, or two hours, or three hours farming anything and everything that comes down the stairs.

The normal staff response to this would be something like, "So get organized and clean out DF," but you should not simply hand-wave away this problem like the usual player whining about DF. This zone is the primary XP spot for new characters--and by extension new players. If these players have to spend hours at the entrance getting annihilated by douche-bags with nothing better to do with their time then you will find your player-base getting under cut by this behavior.

Here is what I suggest:

-Reduce the DF close time from 15 minutes to 5 minutes. If you want to go gank RR2's in DF you had better stop what you are doing and go there now. This will help reduce the zerging by reducing the number of players that can trickle in before the gate is closed.

-Reduce the RP award for High RRs ganking RRs 1-3. Realm Ranks 2 and 3 are juicy targets because they offer decent RPs without being a real challenge. Medium to High RR players should not be rewarded for what is essentially RP farming.

-Broadcast DF RvR death spam throughout the realm. "DF defense" is met with apathy by a lot of high RR players (I have no idea why--I personally love it). Organizing a DF clean-up often takes hours of crying and begging in /broad to get the level 50 players to port in from Emain and clean house. By broadcasting DF death spam you will compel the players who are roaming Emain with no inc to come help their realm.

edit:

Please don't ignore or lock this thread because of the zero content trolling below.

Don't you see what those changes would do?


Instead of improving the currently flawed situation, you would make even more flaws that won't even solve the actual problem of which some make end RvR even less appealing to casual players.




As I've said so many times before, it's the entire setting (of which OF and DF are a part of) that's making these things happen, not OF or DF itself. Changes to DF will not create a real solution to the problem, simply because it's not the cause.


Anyway I agree that something has to be done to fix the situation, just not what you proposed.

This is not a discussion about OF specifically. This is intended as a short term fix until something can be done about the state of end-game RvR on Uthgard. This server is rotting from the inside-out and something needs to be done in the short term to contain the bullshit. I offer this as a real solution that can be implemented immediately. If you don't have a solution of your own then why do you waste the time posting in here?

You're like a DAoC Republican.

Seyha wrote:This is not a discussion about OF specifically. This is intended as a short term fix until something can be done about the state of end-game RvR on Uthgard. This server is rotting from the inside-out and something needs to be done in the short term to contain the bullshit. I offer this as a real solution that can be implemented immediately. If you don't have a solution of your own then why do you waste the time posting in here?

I KNOW this is not a discussion about OF specifically. That's why I'm saying so myself, a few times now... It's about the lack of casual RvR (and viable xp spots) in OF, that's what causing all this. Nothing else.

I have a solution. A real one. It just takes a little more time and effort than yet another "quick fix" that will only make things even worse in essence and will probably last for months. I just can't be assed to repost it every time someone brings this subject up since that wouldn't really help would it? Anyway I'll add the link since you insist.
http://uthgard-server.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=151637#151637

I don't agree at all with you here Seyha (surprise, right ). Anyway... We never( or I have never ) seen DF in this state, and i agree that it is due to 'casual' rvr being removed as a viable option. I think the good train of thought would be to reintroduce that casual rvr into OF without any diversions fixing problems to problems. Cause we all know, apart from the hardcore grey killers (whom seem alot less mentioned atm, cause there are bigger nuisances) DF was a much different place in an Agramon setting and has only began to be this bad recently ( first casual rvr died with whining, some odins efforts, now we see the decay of DF ).

Zarkor wrote:I have a solution. A real one. It just takes a little more time and effort than yet another "quick fix" that will only make things even worse in essence and will probably last for months.

If you won't take the time to explain why then I'll just assume you can't. If you don't have anything worth-while to post then stay the hell out. There are a hundred OF discussion threads, and yet once again you have managed to turn the discussion into a soapbox for OF crap.

Rizla wrote:I think the good train of thought would be to reintroduce that casual rvr into OF without any diversions fixing problems to problems.

Well then wave your magic wand and make it happen.

Seyha wrote:

Rizla wrote:I think the good train of thought would be to reintroduce that casual rvr into OF without any diversions fixing problems to problems.

Well then wave your magic wand and make it happen.

*waves wand* abracadabra Did it work

Seyha wrote:

Zarkor wrote:I have a solution. A real one. It just takes a little more time and effort than yet another "quick fix" that will only make things even worse in essence and will probably last for months.

If you won't take the time to explain why then I'll just assume you can't. If you don't have anything worth-while to post then stay the hell out. There are a hundred OF discussion threads, and yet once again you have managed to turn the discussion into a soapbox for OF crap.

Rizla wrote:I think the good train of thought would be to reintroduce that casual rvr into OF without any diversions fixing problems to problems.

Well then wave your magic wand and make it happen.

Oh my god... Take the time to explain why what? Why the OF situation is the cause of this?

I've put about 6 hours of my time in that massive post elaborating on everything that is affecting the situation and how and why to solve it. The root of the DF problem is the situation in OF, caused by factors inside and outside of OF. Hence, the solution lies in fixing the OF situation, not in meddling with elements that are merely affected by it, but don't cause it.
How many times more do I have to smack you in the face with this fact before you actually get it?

I've given this entire topic more thought and effort than pretty much anyone else and you start blaming me for not taking the time for it? Cut the crap please. Read my solution and try to realise what's going on instead of starting a flamewar that only makes chances of this issue getting fixed even worse.

I guess if you found a man bleeding to death in the woods your first action would be to drive him 50 kilometers to the nearest hospital. Instead of, you know, bandaging his wounds.

What is the possible negative of broadcasting DF death spam throughout the realm?

What is the possible negative of reducing mindless RP farming?

What is the possible negative of reducing the closing timer?

Answer or get out, because now you're just arguing for the sake of argument. That's called trolling.

Seyha wrote:You really are going to ruin this thread aren't you?

What part of "short-term fix" don't you understand? I guess if you found a man bleeding to death in the woods your first action would be to drive him 50 kilometers to the nearest hospital. Instead of, you know, bandaging his wounds.

What is the possible negative of broadcasting DF death spam throughout the realm?

What is the possible negative of reducing mindless RP farming?

What is the possible negative of reducing the closing timer?

Answer or get out, because now you're just arguing for the sake of argument. That's called trolling.

I can't believe i'm actually answering this and possibly aggravating you more (chill dude). The possible negative is the work going into those (sorry) pointless temporary 'solutions', while the more obvious solution deserves work. If a guy was bleeding to death in the woods, would he hear the sound of a falling tree?

Rizla wrote:I can't believe i'm actually answering this

That isn't an answer, but to answer your question: Yes.

What does "casual RvR" have to do with the problem in DF? The problem is organized zergs of 2-3 FG intentionally coming to DF to RP farm. If "casual RvR" were the problem then you'd have people complaining about DF being filled with solo's and small-mans and the occasional PuG (hint: this wouldn't be a problem at all).

The problem is multiple groups of High RR players organizing themselves specifically to make DF unplayable for the controlling realm.

Seyha wrote:Recently DF has become a haven for OF zergs and powerful high RR groups who go there to troll lowbies for RPs. These players have become so dis-satisfied with combat in OF that the loss of DF for them is cause for celebration.

Yes, when you get flamed when you zerg in OF, when ppl join your BG to flame/troll , when you may not add , when you may go OF for spending RPs only,... people search an aternate way to RvR,..(noone will ever flame you for Zerging/adding in DF....) (there are no GG/FGs that kill your PuG in 30sec)
The strongest groups remains in emain , till they notice its empty,...then go df , get zerged ; flame about DF RvR is noob style,...

Seyha wrote:The normal staff response to this would be something like, "So get organized and clean out DF," but you should not simply hand-wave away this problem like the usual player whining about DF. This zone is the primary XP spot for new characters--and by extension new players. If these players have to spend hours at the entrance getting annihilated by douche-bags with nothing better to do with their time then you will find your player-base getting under cut by this behavior.

actually this already has happened. this whole DF-Zerg-RvR-thing is caused by a response like:"So get organized and clean out DF" in this case i'd say it was: "The RvR situation will change itself in a few month"
and well ,.. this GM was definatly right ,.. players that thought RvR in OF isnt viable found their new playground,..

Seyha wrote:-Broadcast DF RvR death spam throughout the realm. "DF defense" is met with apathy by a lot of high RR players (I have no idea why--I personally love it). Organizing a DF clean-up often takes hours of crying and begging in /broad to get the level 50 players to port in from Emain and clean house. By broadcasting DF death spam you will compel the players who are roaming Emain with no inc to come help their realm.
.

Why add a Broad cast about DF kill spamm when you can simply eliminate the problem which lead to this DF-Zerg-RvR-thing?
Sure you could make the DF RvR thing even more interessting with these Broadcast messages (so you know when the main killspamm is over you can log in your DF toon again) , or simply set up and alternate RvR zone for casual players,.. lets say ,.. OF ? implement a xp bonus and xp spots that are worth it , and add a realmwide "Keep under Siege" message and you dont need the DF realmwide killmessage broadcast....

this whole DF-Zerg-RvR-thing is just the baby of the switching to OF and *almost* remove the xp bonus (okay its still there , but just partly worth it and not attracting RvR players, as it was in agramon)
+ removal (no new) of good XP spots

dont ask for going back to agramon , dont ask for strange new changes,.. ask for that, which helped out agra, it will surely help OF too,...

Not long ago I posted a similiar (yes I think so) question here:
http://www.uthgard-server.net/modules.p ... ic&t=17717

Maybe you would say it was a usual QQ from an usual player. But I say the answer sticks at the same door here, just by larger numbers.

Are those actions harrassing?
"... to nuke leveling greys while they fighting mobs to near death and let the mob finishing, so the grey will lose

hard fought experience?

I had no problem beeing killed from a high lvl, because I cant lose anything but some time.

But that is a real bad real life attitude ... Norules Yllybata."

Neju replyed:
"nope... rvr zones.. everything allowed"

DanGer666 replyed:
"man,its fking WAR and not kindergarden-mode. If you dont want to be killed by enemys, or nuked or touched or whatelse.. go inner realm. you want more xp? live with dickheads and morons. there will be more on your way up and at 50, you will meet many more. so..get used to it or leave to inner realm places and forget about your 25% xtra."

Astealoth replyed:
"this is actually one of my hobbies. only reason i go to DF."

Well I'll stick with this: There are no rules in realm war!

Sadly its not all about RP's its about killing the fun beeing in such community either.

...

Reducing the time to 5 minutes wont keep your mentioned organized high rr gank groups from arriving in time.
Your suggestion to reduce RP gained from a kill for disparity on RR spots on a blanace problem dont you think?

My question is, what keeps other high RR groups off from from wiping out those "douche-bags"?
What keeps off high RRs from ganking low RR/LVL?

As long as we do not arrive in a war status and stuck in a wannabe e-sports (1vs1, 8vs8, I-only-fight-equal-numbers) attitude, no healty code of conduct for realm war will evolve.
The community is practicing just too much "social" separation.

Seyha wrote:What does "casual RvR" have to do with the problem in DF? The problem is organized zergs of 2-3 FG intentionally coming to DF to RP farm. If "casual RvR" were the problem then you'd have people complaining about DF being filled with solo's and small-mans and the occasional PuG (hint: this wouldn't be a problem at all).

The problem is multiple groups of High RR players organizing themselves specifically to make DF unplayable for the controlling realm.

Totally wrong. You just underestimate the amount of players on Uthgard which actually wanna play in RvR casually...
Those DF Zergs are NOT ORGANIZED,.. at least not in hib!! mostly they dont even talk about going down and up again ,.. they just react ,.. like a swarm of fishis

Actually , when DF switches , you see alot of : "/lfg lfg" or "/lfg lfm for df rvr" ,.. = PuGs ,.. PuGs build up for casual RvR players ,.. for the only possibility on casual RvR!

you dont have to be FG ,.. often there are 1-3 grps of 3-5players...
There are some, few, high RR players that play casual/PuG only,...(which could explain your *high RRs going DF*

So , when DF opens or closes, its the primetime for groupbuilding for casual players,..

Sometimes high RR groups come , cause they lost to other high RRs in emain several times,..

Sometimes high RR groups come , cause theres no inc left in emain , since the other high RR/GGs/set groups went to DF
(that may explain your "high RR groups going DF" , but they dont oraganize!!!)
if the fish swarms disappeard sharks go and search their food somewhere else
would you go back to your supermarket in order to buy food when it stopped selling food?
and would you go back there after a bigger amount of time passed, without a new attraction of desire??

so actually this all is happening because:
- no viable XP-bonus/spots
- no possibilty to reach keeps in time - which causes
- no existing viable casual RvR - which causes
- high RR groups getting bored

Because all action is in emain, and isnt spread out with things like XPer /good xp bonus/spots , and realmwide keep under siege messages , which was all implemented in uthgards NF time,.. high RR groups farm PuGs all day long, PuGs have no fun RvRing , go DF, High RRs --> bored --> go DF

so it has a lot to do with casual RvR

so yes,. casual players go DF to RP farm , same as you do , as hunter , same as set groups/GGs/high RRs RP farm on PuGs in emain ,.. if you want to call it RP farming ,... ;P ,.. i prefer calling it RvR ,..
and if theres nothing to farm in emain ,.. they go and search other places,..----> attack relics or DF are the alternate ways

offtopic: btw you do pretty nice crittshots ,.. saw some 7xx and 8xx on me , was really happy the droods in group werent sleeping ;P

i dont like your proposed fixes. i thinkt he opposite would be nice. bring back RPs for grey kills, make df even more sadistic and unfair. thats part of the fun. if youre zergin or getting zerged, its all part of the game.