Seyha wrote:

Ronian wrote:

Noir wrote:Just change PD as a pure caster ra

Sure if they implemented ap3 and old ip I am fine with that ^^

haha, melee Rangers will be worthless with OF RAs. Purge on a 30 minute timer. IP on a 30 minute timer. True Sight on a 30 minute timer. AP on a 15 minute timer. No MoS. No PD.
Assassins with passive See Hidden detecting you at clipping range..

passive see hidden is like MoS4 now for only 8 points instead of 20 now.
thats at least said from a staffmember..dont remember the name..

true sight is clipping range stealth detection. but true...archers are ''blind'' 29 minutes out of 30..

well, as scout you have at least the chance to spec a bit different
dodger, MoBlock, (those two require audDex and augQui), so you can increase your defence in an other way than PD..
and...you can increase your fire-speed without damagelost with MoA.

also Old RA´s are more powerfull in the low levels than the news..
means: MoPain now..3%, 9%, 17%, ...
MoPain old..5%, 10%..

or MoBlock..now its 2%, 5%, 12%, 19%, 27%
with old its 3%, 6%, 9%, 12%, 15%

or the augAttributes..
now..4, 12, 22, ...
than..6, 12, 18, ...

so the way to go with old RA´s is splitting them into more skills than now...because speccing them high doesnt grant you much ... at least for the most passive RA´s

There has been a Ranger mainhand damage nerf:

Old RA´s wont happen, would be the doom of the server.
But wouldt be surprised with the logic of the GM´s here.

Anyway image old RA´s within stealther society, NS with ap and remedy = king. Stealthzergs with truesight bots on speed5 uncovering anything. A lot of afk camping for 30 mins RA´s to reset.

In grouping, albs with bof+sos.
Hibs will prolly run bombgroups relying on moc + gp then afking for moc to reset.

Only thing good i see is that mids will be more even with alb and hib groups.

Anyway, Old RA´s = /del for me and many others.

Jonah wrote: NS with ap and remedy = king. Stealthzergs with truesight bots on speed5 uncovering anything. A lot of afk camping for 30 mins RA´s to reset.

.

No one with any sense would camp for 30 minutes on timers, that would mean less than 2 inc per hour.

Force wrote:No one with any sense would camp for 30 minutes on timers, that would mean less than 2 inc per hour.

I think Jonah's point is that because OF balances powerful RAs with extremely long timers you're at a huge disadvantage for the next 29 minutes every time you use an RA.

This wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that you need some of these RAs to counter normal class abilities or cheap passive RAs. Archers need 30 minute True Sight to counter an assassin's passive See Hidden. At the same time the notion that you can activate an ability and for 60 seconds see every stealther in clipping range is ridiculous. Stick an Archer to an FG with speed 5 and every 30 minutes you can find and kill any stealther in a 3000 unit radius. That's stupid.

Force wrote:No one with any sense would camp for 30 minutes on timers, that would mean less than 2 inc per hour.

Which is more then now in some maps.

Musikus wrote:so the way to go with old RA´s is splitting them into more skills than now...because speccing them high doesnt grant you much ... at least for the most passive RA´s.

Precisely why OF RAs are inferior to NF ones.

Braxis wrote:Precisely why OF RAs are inferior to NF ones.

Compare them and you will see.

And for start little example.

purge every 15, 5 min > purge every 30 min.
Pd pasive > PD active every 30 min.
New sos > old sos.
new mop > old mop.

And i can still.

I wouldn't call it inferior, just different. The passives are relatively weaker but the actives are stronger, even though on a longer timer.

Braxis wrote:Precisely why OF RAs are inferior to NF ones.

That's one thing I like about the OF RA system. I think it handles passive abilities much better than NF. Except for See Hidden.

My problem with the OF RAs is the multitude of insanely powerful insta-win actives combined with extended timers that only promote negative RvR behavior like afk camping. What's worse is that these actives are distributed unevenly amongst the realms for seemingly arbitrary reasons. Nightshades get Asp, Infiltrators get Vanish, and Shadowblades get........ shadow-run(?).

The only time combat is even remotely balanced is when no one has any actives up, and even then some classes suffer a serious disadvantage (True Sight vs. See Hidden).

Whats the point if only lvl 1-2 passives are worth taking, wile lvl3+ cost/benefit ratio is ridiculous and not even worth considering...

And don't give me that moronic shortsighted rr gap crap.

Especially now that the staff doesnt want anyone to god forbid solo in their spare time...

Braxis wrote:And don't give me that moronic shortsighted rr gap crap.

Talk about being short-sighted. Since cost/benefit effects everyone equally how is it an issue? So you only want 3 ranks in a passive ability. Well, so does everyone else.

Compared to NF, the passives with OF are better balanced for Uthgard.

By the way, I am not advocating a change to OF RAs because over-all they are terrible.

Seyha wrote:Talk about being short-sighted. Since cost/benefit effects everyone equally how is it an issue? So you only want 3 ranks in a passive ability. Well, so does everyone else.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about.
I want all the ranks to be a viable options, as opposed to just 2-3...

Seyha wrote:
I think Jonah's point is that because OF balances powerful RAs with extremely long timers you're at a huge disadvantage for the next 29 minutes every time you use an RA.

It just means you can't rely on your actives to be up every fight, and can only use them when it really matters.

Force wrote:It just means you can't rely on your actives to be up every fight, and can only use them when it really matters.

exactly - too many people are just used to dropping RA's every fight, which is what is happening at the moment.

Force wrote:It just means you can't rely on your actives to be up every fight, and can only use them when it really matters.

If you need to use an active to win a fight then you will use that active. Under normal circumstances no one will hold back on using an active if the alternative is death.

The problem is that when you blow your uber powerful active you're at a huge disadvantage for the next 29 minutes against anyone who has their own active up. This means that actives cease to be part of a player's normal battle strategy. Instead, once every 30 minutes a player may arbitrarily decide to break the game in some way. If your opponents don't have their own game breaking abilities up then the combat is a wash. They might as well just /sit.

If actives are no longer an integral part of combat, then what is the point of having them at all? So that once every 30 minutes you can troll some poor jerk who is skillfully owning you simply by popping a perfect IP? That's dumb.

Neju wrote:exactly - too many people are just used to dropping RA's every fight, which is what is happening at the moment.

Why is this necessarily a bad thing if everyone has access to the same basic set of RAs? The only time it becomes a real problem is in High RR vs. Low RR encounters where the higher RR players have more actives to burn.