Zarkor, you do understand that the summary of your last posting makes up for an Utopia? At first you state that every player is always going to seek an advantage, which is why the players would farm gold for those bindstones. So, lets keep in mind the following key content:

A player will always aim for an advantage.


On the other hand you state in your last paragraphs, that in our current OF setting a player may only stand a chance if he reached a decent realmrank and obtained spellcrafted equipment. Further you described that players may only enjoy RvR if they are able to fight versus equal opponents meaning an overall lower standart in terms of hardcore gaming (unSCed players and/or players lower than lvl50). So, now lets keep in mind the following key content:

OF RvR must include more "low standard" RvR. Low standart means more players lower than lvl50 and unSCed.


Now, lets put your two key contents together and there you have your Utopia. A world where unSCed non lvl50s roam the frontier while all the highRR players of course let them run around in their fluffy green grasslands? This will clearly not happen! Why? because you already stated that every player is aiming for an advantage and if you see a horde of - how did you call it, sheep? - the wolves are most likely to tear them apart for some extra arpees.


In order to maximize the fun in OF the following is needed:

- reach a critical mass of players (player density)
- shorten the RvR re-entry time
- add some fluffy new and interesting content that draws attention

Both, teleporter-lines and bind-at-telekeep help to bring the frontlines closer to each other, meaning that there obviously will be more action. If you don't believe me, simply put 4 thumbtacks in your room, close your eyes and try to cross your room. After that limit the size of your room and you will logically have a higher chance to step on one. Personal bindstones on the other hand offer players an additional possibility to stay within a certain, action-filled battlefield or simply to break out and setting up some kind of temporary safety net.

The most important thing to remind is that the realmrank gap between new players and older players will remain. Only a realmpoint-wipe could deliver a sufficient solution, but this will never happen. So, you need to analyze the situation and try to make the best out of it and an utopic world definitely is not!


Kind regards,
Sethor

Sethor wrote:Zarkor, you do understand that the summary of your last posting makes up for an Utopia? At first you state that every player is always going to seek an advantage, which is why the players would farm gold for those bindstones. So, lets keep in mind the following key content:

A player will always aim for an advantage.


On the other hand you state in your last paragraphs, that in our current OF setting a player may only stand a chance if he reached a decent realmrank and obtained spellcrafted equipment. Further you described that players may only enjoy RvR if they are able to fight versus equal opponents meaning an overall lower standart in terms of hardcore gaming (unSCed players and/or players lower than lvl50). So, now lets keep in mind the following key content:

OF RvR must include more "low standard" RvR. Low standart means more players lower than lvl50 and unSCed.


Now, lets put your two key contents together and there you have your Utopia. A world where unSCed non lvl50s roam the frontier while all the highRR players of course let them run around in their fluffy green grasslands? This will clearly not happen! Why? because you already stated that every player is aiming for an advantage and if you see a horde of - how did you call it, sheep? - the wolves are most likely to tear them apart for some extra arpees.

Please do not mistake OF with OF RvR. You definately misunderstood me.

OF must include a critical mass of players who do not meet the high standards that are maintained within Odin's Gate's MGs and Emain Macha. However I NEVER stated that they should or would go out and RvR with the players in OG and Emain, this will simply not happen and not work, like you said. I know that, I'm not a fool.

The key here is that those players know that they are sheep to wolves, so they will team up and hide, just like you would do in DF as a grey. The entire point is having those players around, even though they aren't visible for the established main RvR in the usual RvR zones, they DO provide targets for the UNestablished RvR players, the ones that are new, the ones that play more casually, the ones that want to smallman or play lone soloers, ...

In other words they create the possibility to have playstyles in end RvR that currently are inexistant and impossible.

Indirectly this leads to more and more players, because they can still chose what to do. Whenever they're bored of 1 playstyle, they can switch to another, without having to relog to a BG twink, which is currently impossible. That's also why all those players currently flee to BGs and why they will gradually increase the end RvR population when the problem is solved without having to fear them fleeing back to BGs again, which is a known, misunderstood problem. The majority of players flee to the BGs because they can't do certain things in end RvR, not because BGs are so super awesome (ofc there are exceptions).


The possibility to play in as much different ways as possible without getting frustrated to death is what OF mainly needs, the rest is additional and will never solve the problem in its core. The possibility to keep enjoying yourself in end RvR in a casual way is immensely vital. Currently there's a few ways, however none of them address casual RvR players. (Siege only if you can get enough players together/Stealthzerg or get stealthzerged/8man)

Sethor wrote:In order to maximize the fun in OF the following is needed:

- reach a critical mass of players (player density)

Don't fool yourself here, you can not improve the amount of players in OF if you do not provide new playstyle possibilities. At least not in the long term. There are just as many end RVR players in OF now as there ever will be, even with the best bonusses or tricks to lure them. In the long run, the players who don't like end RvR in its current form will keep avoiding it untill they can find a way to enjoy it in their way. Adding fluff will only bring more players for max a month, then they will get bored as hell and realise again why they left end RvR.

So, as I said, you need a critical amount of sheep density to enable the possibility for new playstyles. This possibility will trigger more players, which will make this new playstyle worth it, attracting more and more like-minded players.
Again, dont worry about the sheep versus wolves issue because the wolves that are currently in Emain do not intend to hunt any sheep outside their territory. As long as they can find inc in Emain/Odins, they will stay there. Any rational XPer will never enter those zones without a good idea of where he can hide.

Sethor wrote:- shorten the RvR re-entry time

Again, careful here. This is not as much needed as you might think. For instance in Emain on primetime, RvR re-entry time is perfect as it is now. Just fast enough, just slow enough. There is absolutely no need to change this.

However on offpeak hours, things are different. Shorter RvR re-entry time is indeed welcome, but not vital.

If you want to change the re-entry time, just make it so that it does not influence the primetime re-entry time in any way or you'll do more harm than good.

Sethor wrote:- add some fluffy new and interesting content that draws attention

Like I said, this will NOT help as long as there is no fundamental reform to enable new playstyles. Fluff is the last thing OF needs because it will make the situation LOOK better, but in fact make it even worse a month later. It's a complete lost effort if you look at what actually needs to be done.

As soon as the situation is actually fixed, we can start thinking about fluff. Not a second sooner imo.

Sethor wrote:Both, teleporter-lines and bind-at-telekeep help to bring the frontlines closer to each other, meaning that there obviously will be more action. If you don't believe me, simply put 4 thumbtacks in your room, close your eyes and try to cross your room. After that limit the size of your room and you will logically have a higher chance to step on one. Personal bindstones on the other hand offer players an additional possibility to stay within a certain, action-filled battlefield or simply to break out and setting up some kind of temporary safety net.

The most important thing to remind is that the realmrank gap between new players and older players will remain. Only a realmpoint-wipe could deliver a sufficient solution, but this will never happen. So, you need to analyze the situation and try to make the best out of it and an utopic world definitely is not!


Kind regards,
Sethor

None of your suggestions address the core of the problem and are therefore useless as long as there is no real solution.

The issue of the realm rank gap is not so much the problem. The real problem is that you can not avoid it. As a new player you HAVE to face exactly those enemies to get ANY inc in OF. To some, this is either an impossible task, or just something they can not stand or keep doing.

Dealing with this problem is therefore not a matter of closing the gap (new gaps will keep existing), but a matter of providing alternatives in order for players to close that gap without having to do so while fighting those high RR players. Currently this possibility is completely inexistant in OF!

A lvl 50 BG could in theory do that job, however this is only going to make the situation in end RvR worse and bring us even further from a healthy RvR population. Therefore you need to fit this possibility in into OF. How? By making lvl 40+ players very interested in XPing in OF. The rest has been told before...

Maybe implement a good exp bonus in hadrians/pennine and you will have a lot of soloers there ganking lvlers (Pesti )

Ronian wrote:Maybe implement a good exp bonus in hadrians/pennine and you will have a lot of soloers there ganking lvlers (Pesti )

Can't just focus on 2 zones, spots would get too crowded with both xpers and xper hunters untill finally xpers vanish cus they know those spots are too dangerous.

Full Stop.

Zarkor, the listed features are meant as additional features. Of course there have to be made further changes to the Bonus-Exp System, the mobspots within the frontiers, etcpp. So, this topic does not mean to offer a complete solution, but additional features that could be a part of a solution. I'm really wondering, because you already stated that part of a solution as a fair point.

Zarkor wrote:

Sethor wrote:Of course there have to be made some changes to the current RvR zones. The point is - Uthgard Staff has answered the communities wish to change the RvR zone several times - every time the community argued about the offered system shortly after the change due to the lack of opponents. It is some kind of vicious circle that may only be broken by finally drawing a clear line between "first glimpse onto RvR" and "main rvr". A rvr roadmap could probably look like ...

- improve OF system: possibility here
- improve OF mob spots and exp system
- implement OldRA system
- change to battlegrounds
- review on classes

All fair points.

@all: please stay ontopic. The discussion is about the very first postings features.

Sethor wrote:Full Stop.

Zarkor, the listed features are meant as additional features. Of course there have to be made further changes to the Bonus-Exp System, the mobspots within the frontiers, etcpp. So, this topic does not mean to offer a complete solution, but additional features that could be a part of a solution. I'm really wondering, because you already stated that part of a solution as "fair".

Zarkor wrote:

Sethor wrote:Of course there have to be made some changes to the current RvR zones. The point is - Uthgard Staff has answered the communities wish to change the RvR zone several times - every time the community argued about the offered system shortly after the change due to the lack of opponents. It is some kind of vicious circle that may only be broken by finally drawing a clear line between "first glimpse onto RvR" and "main rvr". A rvr roadmap could probably look like ...

- improve OF system: possibility here
- improve OF mob spots and exp system
- implement OldRA system
- change to battlegrounds
- review on classes

All fair points.

@all: please stay ontopic. The discussion is about the very first postings features.

Well, I think EVERY additional feature is rendered completely useless as long as the core isn't solved yet.

So far my opinion on this topic then.

i dont like the sound of this custom teleportation system. i think an easier and more accurate solution to the teleporting problems on uthgard is to put a channeler back in the border keeps so we can bind there without having to use medallions to go to town and our houses. madallions to the enemy zones has a particular purpose in mind, but teleporting home and to towns with medallions serves no purpose but to annoy.

Astealoth wrote:i dont like the sound of this custom teleportation system. i think an easier and more accurate solution to the teleporting problems on uthgard is to put a channeler back in the border keeps so we can bind there without having to use medallions to go to town and our houses. madallions to the enemy zones has a particular purpose in mind, but teleporting home and to towns with medallions serves no purpose but to annoy.

Agreed.

Ronian wrote:Maybe implement a good exp bonus in hadrians/pennine and you will have a lot of soloers there ganking lvlers (Pesti )

In Daoc Classic Zones i miss real spots like in other games..

1 Named Boss Mop and around some smaller ones with drops that u can needed to xp on..

the most monster in daoc drop only loot for sell or nothing ..

and its more a custom Zone with custom planted monster all over the map then a system in daoc..

Behind MMG in Hadrians its deadland

Sethor wrote:Do you really think so? The usage of personal bindstones single/group/realm could easily be limited by pricing, duration and eventually a global timer like for example maximum 1 realm bindstone per day. I see the potential in these stones, offering new strategical possibilities that enhance especially sieges.

And it would offer Spys/Crossrealmer one more thing they could spoil.

Zarkor wrote:If you're going to implement such a huge feature, expect it to be misused as much as possible.

Agree.