well one of the things that I think is troublesome with your setup is that from lvl 35-50 there is no valid training ground or pve breaks.. this is a pretty big grind section which might turn many players off..

and I doubt you can really have lvl 35-50s rvr'ing in the 50 zones as they will always be rolled by smaller numbers of 50s, etc.. and then the only option is to grind to 50 or to join a zerg which many don't really want to as they feel they are just fodder for the real people rvring (50s)

and I agree - templates, specs, RR, requirements is a part of why people prefer BGs over OF.. however I think that there might be more to it.. however I don't know what it is as I personally love OF rvr more than BG rvr that is why I am asking those who claim to rvr 100% of the time in BGs

Tbh I don't see any problem here Zarkor.

Everybody should be able to play his own playstyle, no matter what it looks like.
I met many people with different point of views.
I met one who had 14 (!) lvl 35 rr2L2 Infis cause he doesn't want to play this class else than in Braemar.
I met one who made PvE all the time, he has several 50s but non above rr5.
I met few ppls who did nothing than RvR all day.
And I met some who hang around with lvl 45 in Nisses Lair, helping and joking around with lowlvl and even helped them grping.

It all depends on your playstyle, you can't make ppl to 50-RvR-only players, they have to go there by theirselves. It's the same with greykilling. You can't stop greykillers with such threads and you can't stop BG-like players from playing in BGs.

If you want a server based on lvl 50 RvR than kick ALL BGs and make xp easier or make an Instant 50.

You can't decide how players have to play on a server.

Lg Lyllien

Lyllien wrote:...

/sign

however if we CAN improve the server.. we should

I only do RvR at lvl 50, but I'm all for /rp off. Wouldn't hurt to have some BG chars for when emain is empty/lamezergmode

nixian wrote:well one of the things that I think is troublesome with your setup is that from lvl 35-50 there is no valid training ground or pve breaks.. this is a pretty big grind section which might turn many players off..

The problem with most players on Uthgard is that they tend to think about DAoC from the Uthgard point of view instead of from an objective point of view. That's also why ANY change will cause whines from somewhere, even though they are actually improving things.

This is also mainly what's causing you to fear the gap between 35 and 50 when it comes to frontier activity. Nobody is used to this and i's been about 7 years since this was ever the case in DAoC, which makes it even harder to imagine.
However, this doesn't mean this is actually a problem. People won't suddenly try to beat enemy high RR FGs with a lvl 40ish pug, or if they do, they won't be eager to try again anytime soon. What will happen is that people will be given a lot more possibilities to enjoy end RvR aswell as leveling above 35 compared to what they have now. Lower level players will either join the zerg if they decide they are fed up with grinding in PvE and rather level up by being that nasty adding green enemy and having more fun doing so than by xping. Some of them decide grinding is worthwhile because in the end they'll be able to beat up those greens who rather just go RvR immediately. Some of them try to build smallmans to kill those other levelers or the occasional solo 50 to get their xp and RPs.

The gap seems bigger, but the options offer a lot more variation and will definately provide the possibility to avoid the boring grindfest 100% of the time. Even more so than it does now.

nixian wrote:and I doubt you can really have lvl 35-50s rvr'ing in the 50 zones as they will always be rolled by smaller numbers of 50s, etc.. and then the only option is to grind to 50 or to join a zerg which many don't really want to as they feel they are just fodder for the real people rvring (50s)

Like I said above, the lower level and RR players will prefer to avoid the lvl 50 RvR zones as much as possible to RvR in if they do not want to join the zerg.
Likewise, a FG of 50s isn't going to hunt a grp of 4 lvl 38s to get their RPs when they have a lot more fun, challenge and reward fighting enemies of their own strength.

Don't get me wrong though, there will of course be smallman lvl 50 PuGs roaming to hunt xpers, but that's part of the solution. Currently, building a quick PuG and go hunt xpers isn't even a possibility if you're out for a fun night in OF. Not to mention levelers aren't always the pushover you expect them to be.

nixian wrote:and I agree - templates, specs, RR, requirements is a part of why people prefer BGs over OF.. however I think that there might be more to it..

There isn't besides insta port and the fact that the combination of all this enables for a viable way of enjoying your free time no matter how short compared to end RvR.

Lyllien wrote:It all depends on your playstyle, you can't make ppl to 50-RvR-only players, they have to go there by theirselves.

Exactly, but you are also forgetting that the current setting actually cancels out a lot of possible playstyles, exactly when it comes to end RvR. This results in having the players who prefer other than FG end RvR to either quit, reroll their toon, PvE or whatever that's got nothing to do with end RvR, making it the problem even worse, because all that's left now is the FG and stealthzerg RvR in Emain.

The problem we're facing now is that a lot of people are willing to play their playstyle and preferably for an unending amount of time, which means preferably in end RvR. However this just ain't possible at the moment because those playstyles are a waste of time in OF atm. So what needs to be done is shifting the possibility to play DAoC the way they want from where ever (BGs, mainland, DF, ...) to the frontiers, so that OF becomes as populated as it should be to make it really shine for everyone (because most players will be able to play the game the way they like to, even in OF).

So yes, let the players go play their own playstyle, but make the best solution for such a playstyle end up in the frontiers instead of BGs, which is the current situation.

Toblerone wrote:I only do RvR at lvl 50, but I'm all for /rp off. Wouldn't hurt to have some BG chars for when emain is empty/lamezergmode.

Another fine example of the "Uthgard syndrome". People tend to only think about problems within the Uthgard setting, without considering better solutions.

Instead of creating possibilities to adapt a BG like playstyle in OF, people start asking for some love for such playstyles outside OF, because on Uthgard, the only way to play like that is to log a BG char, which is a really really really big problem.
If you solve this problem, nobody will ask for /rp off anymore, but just happily switch to a different playstyle, to a different zone in OF, which is how it should be.

It's probably the biggest or 2nd biggest RvR problem Uthgard has.



...if only the devs would realise this.

Toblerone wrote:I only do RvR at lvl 50, but I'm all for /rp off. Wouldn't hurt to have some BG chars for when emain is empty/lamezergmode

/signed

and shouldn't be too hard to implement

It's not an "uthgard syndrome", it's "livelike behaviour". I like to rvr, sue me.

Level ranges on uth BGs can be a problem, atm lvl 49.5 BG is a very good substitute for endgame rvr and that is of course a problem. The whole change in level caps on battlegrounds was a bad move all around, not only from a rvr perspective but (dare I mention pve) the mob camps were perfect for the level ranges in the BGs. Back before the lvl/rr cap change BGs used to have the best exp spots for when DF was closed, they also had their own exp bonuses (later changed to be realm-wide for the realm who controlled the central keep).

Good point Zarkor.

You're BG-cancel-method seems a bid too radical to em.
Maybe you just do BGs to lvl 45 with 3L0 cap. And maybe you seperate 3 Zones. E.g. Emain as mainzone, everybody in there above rr6. Hadrians for everybody below rr6. Odins for Solo/duo.
This would be a good change, cause you have the possibility to do everything. I bet zerg would eb a bit less than now and you got the Soloplayers back. Stealthzerg would still be in Emain. A bit less zerg cause the population is splitted up a bit.

But sure it will depend again on ppls attitude and there will be some grps of 4+ who farm soloers. But the zones are big enough to avoid them.

Lg Lyllien

As much as I would like to see your ideas implemented Zarkor, I just cannot imagine how Emain would look like with level 40- ~48 players running around. With the current RA setting it will take the established groups literally seconds to wipe 2+ groups of those, never giving them a chance to encounter an enemy group of their size and level.

Also I am not sure how such a solution would be accepted, considering an average Uthgard player's "DON'T ADD" mentality. You'd get more "add" and "zerg" then you ever had on Uthgard. It would have an extremely negative impact on the 50's attitude towards sub-50s, where you'd have both allied and enemy players hating and cursing lowbies for leeching off their fights and ruining their 8v8 fun.

The "No add" is hardly average, we're a minority in a minority. Having another fg or smallman or even a solo avoid our fight is like seeing jesus: WOW DID YOU SEE THAT, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!

The BG setting can never be replicated within OF.

Instead of trying to push everything together and remove all diversity we should strive to make each single thing better.

1.) /rp off for bgs
2.) series of fixes for OF

It's sad to see the "don't add" mentality over and over when the idea behind RvR is to defend your realm and fight for your realm. But honestly I have no real solution to that. The only thing where adds are easily accepted is the relic raid or some weak random group.

Nymeros: /rp off is counterproductive for endgame RvR. It will never arrive here. Stop suggesting this. It makes no sense.

You might as well say PvE is contraproductive for endgame RvR then IMO. Some people prefer BGstyle RvR, some prefer endgame RvR. And now when you guys introduced OF the gap between the two became larger then ever, so it's more important now than ever that we should be able to choose what we want for ourselves, and not have you choose for us.

Blue wrote:It's sad to see the "don't add" mentality over and over when the idea behind RvR is to defend your realm and fight for your realm. But honestly I have no real solution to that. The only thing where adds are easily accepted is the relic raid or some weak random group.

It's not sad. The point of rvr is to have fun. The point of any game is to have fun. "Defending the realm and fighting for the realm" is a purely roleplaying perspective, roleplaying is for people who live two lives, not for people who play games for fun.

For more on gaming and fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

The "no add" mentality came from live, when people finally figured out that rvr is much more fun for both sides when having an even fight. Sure one side will lose and might be bitter over it, but it's still not as lame as getting run over by or running over with 3-4 times the numbers.

Heho,

Maybe if on Uthgard the /rp off command will implemented the bg RvR will change.
At the moment it is for some player good RvR because you don´t need so much SC or a good Groupsetup, but that will maybe change then, because some player will make then bg chars with SC and then maybe some guilds will have some player with bg chars they will also have a good setup in bg and can win against random groups most time easiely.

greetz Luydor