rouxtm wrote:

infi wrote:There are so much mmo's where you can PvE all day long and it never ends. But DaoC isn't like that. It's about PvP my dear fellow...

Totally wrong, it is about RvR, this what you all forget

Sry to say that, but you are wrong too. DAoC is about PvP _and_ RvR
It's up to you, what you like but PvP and RvR were always parts of the DAoC gameplay.

PvE and PvP are common terms, which describe the system. You mustn't take it literally.
RvR is a PvP system designed by Mythic...

You can whine about the porting time..you can whine about the high rr grps..you can whine about many things, main problem here is PLAYER"S ATTITUDE!

Why are there more zergs here then in Agramon? cause ppl know that if they die , they will have to w8 a few minutes to comeback to Emain..for example, and they dont like that do they ! Its part of the game, die /rel and comeback, you dont have to ruin some1 else's fun cause u r a ****** who 's afraid to die and dosent liek to w8 dunno how many minutes on pad, ppl have done it on oficial servers in the past . and they still had nice fights w/o adds etc.

Why u cant play solo in Emain? cause stealthers/nonstealthers play grped now..3..4..5 in same grp, beeing afraid to atack in a 1 vs 1so they will not..DIE! And if u get atacked by 1... 3 others will help him!, and the fun is gone.Same with FGs kiling soloers = easy and good rps,adding the fact that soloers cant hide like they used to in Agramon beeing forced to follow same routes Fg do, no chances to survive.

This is Old frontiers that you are playing now, forget how it was before with porting into Agramon bla bla, feel and understand your role into this game and every1 will be happy, stop beeing a chicken and add to the other fights with the whole fg so you wount die and have to w8 for porters.

OF is good as it can be, the players are the problem and the way they choose to act.

well get the ****** out of emain then, to use your tone of voice^^

you go to EMAIN for 1vs1? are you insane?

thats like going to wallmart during spring cleanout everything 50%-80% off for a "nice, relaxed shopping tour".

or doing a picknick in the middle of a football riot because of the silence and clamness of the surroundings^^

[INC: WALL OF TEXT -worth to read tho imo-]

I do think the community's RvR attitude is indeed an issue. Simply because end RvR is seen as the playground for the RvR guilds. You can compare it to an old shooter actually, like Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. I still play that game (started when I started playing DAoC) and I have to say there's a significant drop in players troughout the years (like daoc), but probably the biggest hit was felt in the clan department, where a lot of clans moved on, making it harder for the remaining clans to find wars.

The comparison also lies within the requirement for skill, teamplay and tactics in clan wars. These ingredients are necessary to stand a chance in such battles and the average war player who's left playing MoH:AA totally beats the **** out of any public player. The big difference of course is that it's an MMO setting vs an FPS setting. However, there is still a lot more that MoH:AA (or any (old) shooter) for instance has in common with DAoC (Uthgard).

On Uthgard, the majority of the players prefer to RvR in BGs, just like most people who still play MoH:AA are playing in public servers. Why?
Easy.

- A lot of players play bad, but they will be able to join teammates to compensate their lack of skill(/equipment/level in DAoC).
But this also goes for the enemies, which evens it out a little. Put a SCed decent player in a BG and he will rape everything inside. Only characters with similar gear/skill/level will be able to match him. Just like in public servers, where a skilled player will totally humiliate the casual players and only has a challenge fighting players of his own size.
- The action is fast (+ the reward is nice in DAoC) and provides a lot of fights in a short period of invested time.
Now this is NOT bad. It's good, since it makes people enjoy their free time fighting other players, which in the end is what both games are all about: having fun matching strength/skill with your foes. In other words: competition.
- This type of gameplay is considered easy since there's not that much effort invested.
(You don't need a clan/You don't need supergear, levels or a guild and it's really easy to just hop on and see what's happening.) The benefit is that there's a lot more players doing it, the downside is that it's never going to match the feeling of playing a clan war / 8v8 where skill, teamplay and tactics (and RR, in DAoC) are actually the deciding factors.


Now what you get in DAoC end-RvR is actually like a public server with several 'clans' working as a team, fighting both 'public' players as other clans. Of course the casual (public) players don't have fun since they can't really get a team together to match their enemy and they will seek a place where they can enjoy their playstyle the most.

The combination of these 2 playstyles only reduces the fun for the largest part of the community, which results in a seemingly dead end-RvR zone, which is ruled by the high RR guild groups.


Claiming that those more dedicated RvR players have to change their attitude is not something that's going to work. You can not save a problem by having to change someone's playstyle, whether it be the one or the other.
A possible solution might be for the "8v8 players" to use separate zones instead of hunting the casual players (Emain for casual gamers, Odins/Hadrians for 8v8 players for instance). This way there is room again for the casual player to continue enjoying his playstyle after he left the BGs, since there will still be opponents with the same attitude and strength, which will only make more players actually RvR at lvl 50 simply because it's fun again. (This way, having a BG to get you to 4Lx isn't necessary anymore since you would not need it that much to be able to do anything because casual RvR is still possible without being slaughtered and the 8v8 population will manage to deal with it.)

There are however 2 issues stopping this solution.

1. Player count: there simply are not enough RvR guilds to split the RvR community even more. Finding 8v8s will just take too long, and definately not possible as much as people would want. With a player count above 2k, this problem is most likely solved.

2. Partially because of the first issue, it will be quite hard to actually have those 8v8 players agree on fighting somewhere outside the "Free-RPs-packed-Emain" since that's where all the easy kills are running around.




In the end, the biggest problem this server has is its lack of RvR population in general. If even 50% of the population would RvR (8v8 or casual), there would be no problem at all since it would leave the possibility to do every type of RvR gamestyle you want to do. (Solo/8v8/casual RvR) So perhaps... if we would unofficially split the RvR zones for casual, 8v8 and solo gameplay (like it was back on live in OF), there will most likely be a serious increase in the casual endRVR players if this is promoted and performed right. There would only be a need for a few more 8v8 guilds though.

In theory this is possible, however I think it's harder than it looks on paper I'm afraid. Especially since help from the staff would be extremely helpful, which I'm afraid we won't get since they apparently can't stand A) strict RvR guilds who do not play RvR the casual way (red = dead etc) and B) do not want 'organised' RvR. (I don't mean to offend the staff in any way, just giving you the picture I have from your opinion throughout the years...)

PS: This in combination with the implementation of Old BGs (20-24, 25-29, 30-34 or 35) would mean an incredible boost to the end RvR population since end RvR would be the only place to really keep enjoying your character without having to level it to 20 every time you cap at lvl 30-35. Simply because the BG type of RvR would still be possible in Emain!

@Zippity: First of all you won't be able to change the playstyle of players, whether they prefer 8v8 or zerging/BG fights. You just can't. Saying "the game wasn't meant to be played like that" is of no relevance at all. Not to mention the ONLY reason for this would be for ONE playstyle to work, which would mean losing a lot of RvR players to that, which is in fact what is happening now.
The 8v8 mentality is destroying the casual RvR mentality, they just can not function together. Add to that long port timers/time to get into the RvR zone and you have a VERY demotivated and vanishing casual RvR community. I'll agree with the need for a solution there, but excluding playstyles simply does not work.

Secondly, I really agree with your general ideas of what needs to get some work namely, reworking BGs (keeping them at low level and realm level is an excellent incentive for people to actually RvR where they are supposed to instead of rerolling every time) and reworking leveling to 50 (making xping and longterm grinding more rewarding, however, you can not simply hand out spot-related bonusses since that will completely pack those areas and make it useless for the ones who can't camp that spawn, which simply ain't fair).


Add to all this a reworking of the Realm Ability system for Uthgard (which is however highly controversial and a very tough nut to crack correctly) and this server would be making IMMENSE progress in almost every aspect (more classic, bigger co-existing RvR population (check my former post), bigger population in general since end RvR would actually be worth it, more balance, more fun, LESS WHINES )

I would so LOVE for Thidranki to be removed.

I can't even begin to describe how much I would want that to happen. I think hell would break loose, as only then would the staff realize how many people are actually not doing AYNTHING except running Thid twinks atm (myself included). Maybe then we'd have some changes made to OF.

Please, by all means, remove Thidranki.

Making less fun alternatives more attractive by removing the funnier alternatives is retarded. Make the less fun alternative more attractive instead. What's fun is very subjective.

I prefer quick action bgs with friendly non elitist people over slow waiting times + long running and I dont think I have an attitude problem. Its just alot more enjoyable.

And dont forget there are people that like the current OF setting over NF (or other BG like endgame rvr).

The best solution would be to have both OF and NF (Aggra or sth) available, so everyone can choose what they want to play.

But everyone knows every sane person would then choose NF, and so the less fun alternative is enforced on everyone, and then we're supposed to pretend it's somehow MORE fun. I call it "The Uthgard paradox".

OF was voted by people who logged couple of times to check the zones and they dont even play in OF. I know some.

Nostalgia ftw.

I would take NF without ToA tower port any day.

Nymeros wrote:I would so LOVE for Thidranki to be removed.

I can't even begin to describe how much I would want that to happen. I think hell would break loose, as only then would the staff realize how many people are actually not doing AYNTHING except running Thid twinks atm (myself included). Maybe then we'd have some changes made to OF.

Please, by all means, remove Thidranki.

OMG !

What do you want? More easy low lvl/RR to zerg in frontiers?You are exactly the kind of player that make 90% of people not going to RvR!

Infi wrote:That's the dumbest suggestion i've ever read. Sadly it's not the first time I read stuff like this.
There are so much mmo's where you can PvE all day long and it never ends. But DaoC isn't like that. It's about PvP my dear fellow...

Did you understand what you read ?And my dear,you are totaly wrong,because daoc is about PvP,RvR and PvE!If daoc is only PvP for you,go play on Eden.

Zarkor wrote:In the end, the biggest problem this server has is its lack of RvR population in general. If even 50% of the population would RvR (8v8 or casual), there would be no problem at all since it would leave the possibility to do every type of RvR gamestyle you want to do. (Solo/8v8/casual RvR)

I agree 100% with this.Just ask 2 questions,
1#-Why Bg got succes?
2#-Why people don't go RvR?

1#Because fights are balanced and mostly depend of you playing abilities.
2#Because fights are unbalanced,depend of your stuff,team,time played,class,your spec...

Actually RvR is like going breamar at lvl 20.

-You can go there,if you got a grp of lvl 35 you will get some RPs(like going RvR with some 8L+)but you will not have fun because your main time would be lying on the ground.
-You can try with a grp of lvl 20/25 (like a fg of 3L/4L) and perhaps get one or two solo kill but get zerged by the first lvl 35 grp(like a 8L+ grp in frontiers)
-You can try solo,and get 1%chance to find another lvl 20 solo and win the duel for a small reward after waisting an hour of hunting and /rel.

What did you do then?You go XP to become stronger,and try at lvl 30.If it's still not enough you come back at 35.And when you are 35,you STAY there to cap your RR!

That's mentality of people!This don't change in RvR.But the problem is ,there's no alternative actually to become stronger!The realm task are not the solution in OF.They were implemented on NF because they were many way to reach realm and there was a lot of spots and guards.Actually if you are alb and get Hib guards to kill,if hib don't have keep in other realm ,you can't cross Amg to reach a keep and kill them.

Mentality will never change!Hardcore RvR gamers will still want easy to kill food at gates and zerg.Hardcore Pve gamers will never stop to farm mobs to get gold and loots,and will never come to RvR.But between this 2 extrems there's 75% of people that just want to enjoy game and progress but can't because of those 2 extrems.They can't go RvR because they are to weak and get zerged.They hardly can get good stuff because of farmers in Pve or they just aren't able to kill the mob.

Give those players an alternative !

RPs on DF mob will increase A LOT the activity.
So please stop whining like : No,this is stupid that will kill RvR
This is an ALTERNATIVE
Based on 50rp/mob and 60 kill/hour it would take :
84h to reach 5L from 4L2
165h to reach 6L from 5L
1990h to reach 10L from 1L

Ask any 10L player about his time in game,it must be far from 1990h.

But what you have to see behind this is more people in frontiers to open df.Isn't it what your all want here?There will not be excessive farming because you have to fight first to get DF.And DF is a RvR dungeon,so ...fights again.When DF close,farmers will inc enemy entrace while other realm mate will fight on frontiers to take keeps again and reopen.Actually,there's only xping in DF and they stay to XP till enemy whipe them.If people come Df for RPs,they would run to fight to more RPs instead of waiting get zerged.

It's only codelines for GM to replace xp bonus by rp bonus on thoses mobs.So plz let's make a try,for a month for example and see what happens.There will not be a hord of 10L in a month with this,but i'm sure lot of people happy.

Whatever the solution to be implemented, WE NEED TO PROMOTE Realm ZERG instead of brainless 10L Group Zerg. It will be the only way to give back good fun to all RR ppl.

Realm zerg is fun by defintion
Realm zerg request less opti group so easier to group low RR

And why not deactivate the porters to emain for one week (for maintenance reasons with the telekeep ;o)), so players have to try out another zone?

This topic a bit silly. Whenever I'm in range, I hear some stealther broadcast positions of enemy groups. Whenever I port to Emain, I find enemies without fail. Yesterday at 3 in the night, I observed a big fight between hibs and albs at the amg, both sides seemed to have more than a fg, and there was a small group of mids in the mpk too when I left there. RvR is anything but dead.

If there are problems for a part of the Uthgard population, they probably need to be dealt with. However I guess the admins might be more inclined to help if all the OF critics didn't act like the world is comming to an end, when it is plain obvious for everyone looking ingame that it clearly isn't.


Couldn't it be enough already for the hibernian non speed groups/soloers, if they get an advanced hastener outside their borderkeeps, that gives out speed 5, but with a duration that ends just on the border of emain ? Should probably get removed by porting, but could then be placed at all borderkeeps, to promote RvR in the milegate-zones.

Rector wrote:And why not deactivate the porters to emain for one week (for maintenance reasons with the telekeep ;o)), so players have to try out another zone?

Hm. Maybe let hibs disable porting to Emain by holding Beno and Bled, forcing the fight into another zone, as long as they are actually there to provide some action ?

People are acting like the world's ending because for solos and smallman it did end.

I won't comment about 8v8 since I rarely play that format, but since they're complaining too then something must be wrong.


Kaltess
First of all, I was being sarcastic about Thid.
Second, there is no way mobs are ever going to give RPS. It's the worst idea ever IMO.