Blue wrote:There will be no further experiments with NF, it had its time. We don't have the power to switch forth and back between settings. What you mention was implemented in a smaller scale and players whined about every little way they still had to go. Even with horse route from nearest keep to Agramon. Believe me everything was tried already. Don't you remember the teleport chain of our last RvR concept from february (the thread about this is not public visible anymore)?

Btw its 01:45 german time and still 80 players in OF (note that 22:00 is prime time). This is not what I consider dead. I can tell that we had a low of OF activity around christmas days but the trend is clearly up again.

Lets try to build up OF to an interesting RvR area. In my opinion the layout of OF is a bit better than NF because it offers hot spots where NF does not.

How many of those 80 people were afk in keeps or exping?

OF IMO is not be better because it promotes zerging and camping, the two worst aspects of DAoC RvR, by having only one chokepoint for each realm.

In my opinion OF has too many problems to continue in the long term, the amount of people with jobs/school/RL who can't afford to waste time doing nothing is much greater that the amount of people who "enjoy porters", but it would at least help a little if you guys would implement some of the measures talked about in the various OF topics, especially concerning smallman and solo RvR.

Zippity wrote:I know one reason i dont like old frontier map is that playing as hib, you get screwed over with the transit times. See previous posts on why. Since all the action is in emain (and that is unlikely to ever change) playing as a hib means you have to deal with enemies who return to the field faster than you can even get there from your border keep! Going from ligen to emain border takes over 10 minutes on speed of the realm. All albs/mids have to do is get a necklace, sit on the portal pad and they can afk while being ported to the zone where as hibs have to remain active all the time and transit etc. That was how it was during the live game in those days (i played live from janur 2003-december 2003) but at least the enemy realms had to wait the full 15 minute timer!

actually no

it takes exactly 7 minutes to run from DL -> emain entrance on realm speed (no sprint)

but that still makes 4 minutes average for alb/mids too short
so why don't we increase the port timer to 12-13 minutes? <-- sarcasm btw

I dont know where you ran to but like normal people, i didnt run through aggressive mobs on the way to emain. I sure would like to see someone video log themselves running 7 minutes from ligen to emain on realm speed. Show me an unedited video with the evidence.

Even so, its still a lot more work and coordination involved than other realms have to do to get to the action. I never voted for old frontiers because i knew that if i played hib, this situation would occur where we'd get screwed over with the transit issues. The least that can be done is increase the transit timers on other realms. If we've got to run all the way through aggro mobs and gank dangers on the way to the zone plus have to run back when we die (unlike the other realms) then dammit, i sure as hell think its appropriate for them to have some measure of discomfort to. Right now if they die, they just spawn back in their teleport keep and they just have to equip a new necklace and they can just sit on their duffs afk if they choose. They also have the opportunity of catching the portal back very quickly depending on if they released back in time for the ceremony to begin. HIBS dont have that option. We have to run back EVERY time.

I preferred a bg where everyone could have access in equal sections of the map and we wouldnt have to deal with this situation. All the action is in emain anyway so whats the difference in having a bg (one zone) as opposed to the current situation with the other 2 realms get to port back easily after death while the host realm has to spend another 10-15 minutes minutes getting back to the zone of action.


Anyway this is only the beginning. Since everyone is so hellbent on going back to old ra's also, you will see this form of grossly imbalanced game mechanic favortism come up again all the more prominantly when those who have no cluee how "classic" era abilities and game features are supposed to work go implementing "something" just to say it's "classic" and end up with a stinking pile of crap because proper forsight wasnt given to understand that you cant go back to what isnt available anymore on top of the illogic of re-implementing BAD systems from the live game that failed then. Ill give you a hint of an example "9 second stun dragon fang," "speed of sound & Bunker of faith" for the win. Just wait till you start seeing infiltrators mowing down full tanks and you will see what "Classic" was all about. To paraphrase einstein, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

As runis is fond of saying, Classic is dead and there's no resuscitating it nor the experience from those days. If you want to customize the game to be enjoyable, then stop working on trying to resurrect lazurus (aka classic) into the form of an rotting undead minion and start fresh from the bottom up and redesign game play and game mechanics around the concept of "balance" equity of play and fun.

zippy 10-15 minutes is waaaaaaay too long it takes MUCH less, esp with bard speed

and I have no video but I have a SS?
big picture



so maybe not 7 minutes but 7.5

but that is indeed on realmspeed, no running through tons of agro mobs, no sprint, no cheat

what route do you take?
inquiring thanes on horseback wanna know! <EG>

jalore wrote:what route do you take?
inquiring thanes on horseback wanna know! <EG>

damn want a map too? tbh I really can't remember but its pretty easy

follow road, stay to the right untill you hit breifine, follow road again when you hit breifine, run to emain xD

Yea but not everybody has bard speed. As i said though, it doesnt really matter what the actual run time is as it is more effort involved than the other realms have to do anyway. I want my port to rvr action zone without having to move 1000 units to; everybody else gets it.

If anyone has the short term memory capacity working in their grey matter organ between their ears, then you will recall that All hell broke loose on the forums and irc when the camp teleporters in agramon got removed. But all of the lazy people complained loud enough and you see that got added back into the server real quick! This is the same situation, except now its for hibs. The popular outcry back then was "its too much effort to run from our portal spot to agramon now. We cant farm rps so fast and make 200k in one day!"
It was designed from the getgo that emain was going to be the primary rvr zone. Even nayru stated that was the intent and there is even a section on the uthgard site saying "If you want action go to e-main" when old frontiers was introduced.

Since people are in essence being "corraled" into the zone by the staff and general practical reasons (everyone knows to go to emain so why go elsewhere that are dead zones?) then it SHOULD make good sense to make sure that the zone is equally accessible to everybody and that there shouldnt be descrimination against certain groups of players (hibs) for simply choosing to play a particular realm.


Ill take up the populist mantle for hib and say "the other two realms get instant teleportation to the action spot, why dont we?!"

Ya i think the current lvl 50 RvR setup is boring and unintresting for me right now. 7min run to emain, just for the expected fights at the gates, nothing new, nothing intresting. Just the same thing over and over at the gates most of the time. Now you could go away from the gates and wait for ever for someone, who is running to the other gate, but yet again just boring. And then you get to die at some point and wish for a rez or the exciting fun of running yet again 7min to emain, for the same thing. At least alb and mids can buy a necklace, stand on the port area and go afk. But yet still just going to the same boring rvr, but at least not as frustrating as it is for hibs. At least back in NF with agramon, you could find fights at gate 1 or 2 of hib, mid or alb and in the middle of CK, side paths , bridges to agramon and even in emain , hadrians, odin, sometimes. But what we have, which is 12 RvR zones with one only being used, with a 7-8min down time, with one realm having to put more effort into getting to the action. Barely any keep action, since there is only one keep in emain and if a grp goes for a keep in brefine or other zones, most likely will not be defended. I still think we should stick to one realms OF zones, with the middle zone as the focus zone, making everyone have equal run time, and make rvr more intresting again. But that is just my opinon, i know many grps love the current setup, but if only a server was made up of only full grps. But in truth, its made up of full grps, smaller grps , and solos . have to consider peak and weaker pop hours.

So till something is done to improve the dullness that rvr has become, im going to screw around on my champ im leveling with my GF, till i get some craving of dull rvr. No offense to the staff that worked on getting OF up, i respec all the work you all had to do, but the problem here is that a normal live classic setup , doesnt work on a non live population.

in my view the main problem are the BG's. atm its way more fun to run there than in emain. if they would clsoe the BG's ppls would be more active in emain.

i fully understand why players rather run in the BG's. faster back in fight and you dont run into RR11 FG's complaining about rr4 adding in.

catania wrote:in my view the main problem are the BG's. atm its way more fun to run there than in emain. if they would clsoe the BG's ppls would be more active in emain.

so you would actually force people out of their fun and into senseless Emain zergfest. I for one would quit the server in an instant. sorry, but right now I'm not having fun in RvR and as it stands nothing is going to change that.

you can't force me into Emain. I'm wasting so much time going there it's just not funny. I wont go to Emain, and go to hell whoever is telling me to go there if I want RvR.

And I do want RvR.

Zippity wrote:Nerf port timers, NOW!

Ahum. Dude, instead of trying to make the situation even worse with your senseless QQ, perhaps think of ways to make it more comfortable for hibs (and any home realm for that matter) to actually go out and roam emain without bard speed instead of trying to get more DISCOMFORT for everyone else. You're really not helping anyone here.


I've personally given out enough ideas to make soloing and smallman worthwhile. Decent ideas, worthy of the classic setting. However, staff has rejected them for an unknown reason, only to let the situation become worse for the people that actually still try to have some fun without waiting 30 min to get a group going. Yes, the situation still sucks, no, we don't have ANY hope on progress any time soon. This DOES affect people going out to RvR.....

Maybe staff should play their own setting for about a week, without bard/minstrel/skald speed and then come back and give feedback, because no suggestion at all (simply rejecting it and ignoring the further need for solutions) does nothing but harm what is left of your RvR population. Talking in sheer numbers (OF pop: 80) is worth NOTHING if you haven't really experienced it for yourself.



The community tried to find a compromise, staff denied it. Maybe the staff can give some input on solutions then? We're still in need of them...

catania wrote:in my view the main problem are the BG's. atm its way more fun to run there than in emain. if they would clsoe the BG's ppls would be more active in emain.

LOL, how can it be a problem if something is actually more fun than doing sth different? Better ask questions why people do like bg more atm and dismiss emain/end rvr. I prefer bg cause theres no need for perfect equipment and perfect RR, pug grps are standard there, you get grped - even a "useless" stealther sometimes, you can go solo, and from time to time even zerging is supported. And you have a small but visisble task in bg: simply getting the keep instead of just only running endlessly to a mg searching for fights and get rolled over.

Hobbes wrote:

catania wrote:in my view the main problem are the BG's. atm its way more fun to run there than in emain. if they would clsoe the BG's ppls would be more active in emain.

LOL, how can it be a problem if something is actually more fun than doing sth different? Better ask questions why people do like bg more atm and dismiss emain/end rvr. I prefer bg cause theres no need for perfect equipment and perfect RR, pug grps are standard there, you get grped - even a "useless" stealther sometimes, you can go solo, and from time to time even zerging is supported. And you have a small but visisble task in bg: simply getting the keep instead of just only running endlessly to a mg searching for fights and get rolled over.

I think you descriped a lot of why people prefer BGs over OF rvr - i think the biggest deal is about getting grps and finding action

1. easy to find hotspot (there is usually just 1 - the keep)
2. easy to find grps - everything is pugs so even 5 random classes and a CC + heal class can do VERY well there because usually the enemies don't even have heal or CC)
3. not so much elitism in BGs (not much of: DONT ADD, FFS your spec X you suck)

however I can only see 2 of those things that can be changed to fit OF..

1 and 3.

1 = bonuses could help define hotspots or increase the lust for keep takes and defends (bonus rp maybe? money/keys/loot from lords?)
3 = community attitude change <-- this one is the hard one

I have an idea that m8 be a good solution for this problem. In the battlegrounds you are able to recall to the centerkeep lord at death (only when rightclicked it and only if your realm is holding that keep). Why not in the Frontierts too? For example, hibernia owns a keep, the group wents to the lord and rightclick it for a /recall point. So they don't have to run the whole way again and again. The other realms can use this system too.

Of course you need to make the /recall area alot wider, as is it at the battlegrounds. Can you live with that?