Nymeros wrote:Well, you have accomplished three things:

1.) Faster access to RvR (if you don't get camped that is, but hey, even that's RvR )
2.) More chance of finding realm enemies (campers)
3.) People riding out together because of campers, which is very cool from a realm roleplaying perspective

I think that is kind of my point. This all started because (generally) soloers have a difficult time getting to the RvR zone in their home realm, and because solo action is absent at the moment. I would imagine that, depending on where the horse drops you, midsize/fullsize groups will still run the whole way for organizational reasons. So this is leaving the solo player vulnerable for another reason. And then you suggest going out together in fear of campers. That's kind of... not soloing. And well, I hope you see my point.

vangonaj wrote:Before ports to agramon we only had horse routes and no one camped them.

I obviously didn't play then, but that could be a result of a smaller server population at that time, however I shall concede that point to you.

Der_Eisbaer wrote:Which do you suppose is easier... trying to kill someone that you know of being somewhere along a fixed line or trying to find a stealther that could be anywhere, for example anywhere in DF?

I'd say killing in DF would be the easier of the two, for reasons to long to get into here, but I fail to see how that comparison is relevant to getting players to the action if OF faster and potentially penalizing the soloers of one realm.

Fishop
I see your point, but why would groups run to Odins (as that is the current designated solo zone?), and not to Emain like they do now? O.o

As for number 3, it's not really a constructive reason I agree, but you can't expect to be solo ALL the time. Even if this plan with Odins works you'll still have all the goodies you had in Aggra: duos/trios farming solos, people adding, leeching and disrupting fights. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as we manage to keep the zergs away.


Again, I may be proven wrong by practice, and this may turn out to be a problem, but I don't think it will. In the worst case we could maybe make horses an alternative, and give people who want to walk higher speed?

I just meant the only people who would probably use the horses (in any realm) would be the soloers/small groups because 8 mans with speed 5/6 will likely choose to continue running.

In any event, I guess I'll shut up. Since porting is not an option, horses are an improvement and I'll take it. (I just hope solo action happens in Hadrian's so I can get free horserider RPs )

I don't like the idea of increased runspeed, because I don't think there should be a universally available speed faster than the what each realm's secondary speeders get. As it stands, hastener speed is almost right on par with it already.

(edit) How about two horse routes per realm, one from each frontier keep? They could lead to similar points (not EXACTLY the same, but close), so neither would have an advantage over the other. You could add porters to Druim Cain/Vindsaul Faste/Snowdonia Fortress to the capital city/housing teleporters.

Fishop wrote:I'd say killing in DF would be the easier of the two, for reasons to long to get into here, but I fail to see how that comparison is relevant to getting players to the action if OF faster and potentially penalizing the soloers of one realm.

Look:

Your point was that assassins camping the horse routes would prevent people from using the horses therefore making them useless. My counter-argument was that the "home" realms assassins - not only them but they have the best tools to do so - would work as a counter-part to the horse-route-campers. You replied that this would be too hard for the "home" realm's assassins (that is at least how I interpreted your posting) because the enemy assassins could stand anywhere along the road.

Now I brought in assassins ganking your realm's players in DF because they could hide anywhere in DF and not only along one straight line because noone ever complained about that. So regarding this fact in my opinion seeing the "home" realm's assassins as a counter-part to the horse-route-campers is a valid argument against your worries. I myself still like none of the ideas mentioned in this thread but assassins vs. counter-assassins might fresh up RvR a bit by giving it a new fragrance.

Fishop wrote:I just meant the only people who would probably use the horses (in any realm) would be the soloers/small groups because 8 mans with speed 5/6 will likely choose to continue running.

In any event, I guess I'll shut up. Since porting is not an option, horses are an improvement and I'll take it. (I just hope solo action happens in Hadrian's so I can get free horserider RPs )

I don't like the idea of increased runspeed, because I don't think there should be a universally available speed faster than the what each realm's secondary speeders get. As it stands, hastener speed is almost right on par with it already.

Good point about the speed. And I see no need for you to shut up, I'm sure we can come with a cool solution that Blue and the staff will like.

How about placing stationary NPC guards along the horse route in certain intervals (not too close to one another), and next to them a Prescience Node, like we had at Aggra portal keeps and boats?

That would make it harder for people to camp the routes, yet not remove the possibility for getting killed totally. Plus it would be a cool addition to an otherwise boring route.


Blue? Does that sound doable?

Well, I usually only read and haven't posted here so far.
Reading this Thread though I would like to add my perspective aswell.

So far I like OF alot.
I never solo'ed in daoc, and personally I never felt daoc is a Game that is geared towards fighting solo. If people want to, alright - go ahead.
But never was my cup of tea.

What I see is: Everyone goes to Emain, and nearly always in fg, unless you are a stealther.
Which is exactly what I like, alot.
I come on, there's always Groups running, and plenty of Action and good fights in Emain.
If the other Zones would be used more, I feel that this would cost some Action in this Zone, and I'm not sure if the Server is already large enough to provide this kind of Activity.

But for me personally, it's perfect. I get lot's of Action, there's very strong Groups out there aswell as PUG's, and it's on in a very small Area - which was what I was afraid of in the Beginning:
That there might not be enough Groups, or that it might take place too spread out.

It isn't. There is alot of Action in a BG-Style Environment.
Which is what I like best..
So while I sure cannot speak for anyone else, I wanted to add my Point of View, which is that the Situation, despite all worries I had in the beginning,
worked out FOR ME perfectly.

So, thanks alot to all fighting in Emain.
Keep the Groupbattles alive !
See you out there.

Nymeros wrote:How about placing stationary NPC guards along the horse route in certain intervals (not to close to one another), and next to them a Prescience Node, like we had at Aggra portal keeps and boats?

That would make it harder for people to camp the routes, yet not remove the possibility for getting killed totally. Plus it would be a cool addition to an otherwise boring route.

To my mind this is too much of customization and take too much of the player's self responsibility. How about that:

Make not one but three different horse routes. Just call them route 1, route 2, route 3. The horse merchant offers tickets for all of them and you choose which one you will get. So any given enemy assassin has to chose which route to camp so the probability that an enemy assassin drops you from your horse goes from 100% to 33.3% per assassin.

XD dont worry about route campers. No one will do it. And if horse give you speed advantage it should give risk too.

Nymeros wrote:Good point about the speed. And I see no need for you to shut up, I'm sure we can come with a cool solution that Blue and the staff will like.

I just meant I didn't want to seem ungrateful regarding the proposed changes, my persistence in sharing my opinion was breaching the whining threshold.

And Eisbaer, I just edited my last post with a similar suggestion. Guess we can agree on some things.

Fishop wrote:And Eisbaer, I just edited my last post with a similar suggestion. Guess we can agree on some things.

Ok, how about that:

We start with one horse route and watch the outcome. If necessary, add another one up to three horse routes. Who know, it might be that we do not need additional horse routes.

Der_Eisbaer wrote:To my mind this is too much of customization and take too much of the player's self responsibility. How about that:

Make not one but three different horse routes. Just call them route 1, route 2, route 3. The horse merchant offers tickets for all of them and you choose which one you will get. So any given enemy assassin has to chose which route to camp so the probability that an enemy assassin drops you from your horse goes from 100% to 33.3% per assassin.

That's also a good idea.

Der_Eisbaer wrote:

Fishop wrote:And Eisbaer, I just edited my last post with a similar suggestion. Guess we can agree on some things.

Ok, how about that:

We start with one horse route and watch the outcome. If necessary, add another one up to three horse routes. Who know, it might be that we do not need additional horse routes.

I'd start with that.

Keep in mind horses are going to be used mainly by soloers/smallmans and are intended for them. Not to mention, horse camping should be part of taking a horse, like Blue said.

But, as you all seem to be missing out on; these changes would also imply a BP bonus for solo/smallmans players in Odins (Emain when action is low). This on its own will also play a role where people will camp and it will probably reduce horse camping itself, since players might just rather camp the Odins entrance (if they're out to hunt Mids) to still benefit from the BP reward bonus, instead of the "horse" combat bonus. The fact that the horses do not enter the primary zones will make it impossible to benefit from both at the same time.

Because of this, I'm pretty confident one horse route per frontier will be enough to start with.

Blue wrote:Horse route camping would be intended. You are in a RvR zone and finding enemies is your goal. You can unmount at any point if you expect enemies. Its not really different to run by "hand".

Please forget instant porters like we had in Agramon. They will not come. This is indiscussable.

If you implement horse routes, you may just delete the zones they lead trough. Those zones will be wastelands like they were in NF too.

Nobody will camp horse routes, because you basically need an instant spell or a bow to kick someone off the horse. This will be viable only for bowclasses, all other classes are in danger that a small group on their horses shows up.

This would just reduce the wonderful possibilities you have in OF.

Cary wrote:

Blue wrote:Horse route camping would be intended. You are in a RvR zone and finding enemies is your goal. You can unmount at any point if you expect enemies. Its not really different to run by "hand".

Please forget instant porters like we had in Agramon. They will not come. This is indiscussable.

If you implement horse routes, you may just delete the zones they lead trough. Those zones will be wastelands like they were in NF too.

Nobody will camp horse routes, because you basically need an instant spell or a bow to kick someone off the horse. This will be viable only for bowclasses, all other classes are in danger that a small group on their horses shows up.

This would just reduce the wonderful possibilities you have in OF.

I don't think this will happen, since even tanks can have a DD charge to drop their enemies. Also, Uthgard does not have the player base yet to support the entire OF with action.

I think horse routes, BP bonusses and timer reductions are definately worth a try.