zzzzzz come on opposition, bring up something new to dis prove my points and the thread, starting to get bored of the same alrdy dis proven points given agenst myn.

Try google searching for better points. Thats the only help your going to get from me.

well, proof what you want..it doesnt matter

.) the pots where in game befor SI was, so they are classic feature
.) they are part of the game
.) there value must be lifted back to original value!!

everyting you said on the last 18 sites...UNINTERESTING..because of THOSE 3 arguments.

staff spoil the custom nerf of the pots/charges!

Gee, if only that has been said before, o wait it has yawn.

Self buffing has been on daoc even longer. Plus Buffboting was on live, should we had that too ? ToA and champ lvls was on live, should we had that ? Should uthgard charge you money to play on there server ?

Ive showed plenty of proof, that self buffing doesnt OP classes vs non self buffing classes, and that self buffs are required to make that class balanced, balanced when they recieve there full 100% bonus from the bufflines.

Eclipsed wrote:Ive showed plenty of proof, that self buffing doesnt OP classes vs non self buffing classes, and that self buffs are required to make that class balanced, balanced when they recieve there full 100% bonus from the bufflines.

20 sites about how to balance, but not one sentence why the actual situation is not.

You think a ranger should have a good chance against something like a BM in a melee fight and that's your understanding of balance.
But others will say BMs should bash rangers in melee.

And you do not proof that one of both is correct.
You only ignore the other opinion!

Everything you just said i have alrdy explained, even in the test, i stated that the BM didnt use triplewield or flurry or his shield slam, while the ranger didnt use his stealth, or bow.

ok ... you don't get it.
Rangers are able to choose targets, they are designed to avoid groups and classes they can't easily kill.
BMs are not able to avoid groups, are not able to avoid the most solo players.

Classes are different ... they don't have to be equal, not in daoc.
It's game design.

Yes the ranger can pick his targets, get the suprise on his enemy and start from range. But for free, hell no. He requires PF to be balanced, he then has to have about 25 or more stealth for a min to be able to stealth effectively at 50, and has to spec bow , melee . What does the BM get, gets to spec max melee, high CD, shield and parry for more defense. That is why he is purge melee, because he specs it. Now in my tests if the BM did use his tools with triplewield, flurry and so on, while the ranger used stealth and bow, and his buffs, it would of been a balanced fight still, and that is with the BM unbuffed.

Stop making it sound like stealth is free to have, stop making it sound like a ranger can spec free buffs, stop making it sound like a ranger has the ability to max his melee. That is all i hear from everyone. There is costs, the cost to spec buffs, to spec stealth, to spec bow, for just being a stealther giving him low stats and tables.

I really dont see this discussion going anywhere, then everyone repeating. I made my point, the staff seems to understand, non self buffers try desprately to hold onto buffs they dont need, and things just repeat. Unless there is more to add, we all made are point. I even find it funny some of them are trying to nerf CD stun for NS and rangers, to get back at me for this thread lol, to bad ive alrdy found stuff about that, and im not concerned about that getting a unintended nerf.

so a full Parry, Throwing weapon warrior should kill all 1v1? he has to spec for those also.

Just because you have to spec *the unique advantages* of your class doesn't mean that you should be able to kill everyone

Eclipsed wrote:Stop making it sound like stealth is free to have, stop making it sound like a ranger can spec free buffs, stop making it sound like a ranger has the ability to max his melee. That is all i hear from everyone. There is costs, the cost to spec buffs, to spec stealth, to spec bow, for just being a stealther giving him low stats and tables.

Stop comparing apples and oranges. Stop comparing shield to stealth and pathfinding to longbows.

Eclipsed wrote:I really dont see this discussion going anywhere, then everyone repeating.

I agree, that's why I stopped even bothering to reply to you anymore. First you claim every class is supposed to be able to defeat every other class through use of any of it's skills, THEN you start comparing different skills and give them same same weight/usefulness. You are not supposed to beat BMs head on. You're not supposed to attack blademasters at all. No, you're not. You're not supposed to attack and beat heroes, armsmen or warriors either. I don't care if you specced all out melee, you're not supposed to beat them with your PF, melee skill and CD. Until you finally understand that, we've nothing more to discuss. Keep ranting, I don't care. I don't have to bring any more proof to you, and I ain't gonna.

Krinton3 wrote:I'll explain this to you once, you wacky kid you, and that's it. Don't bother responding back.

Awwwww, look who couldn't stay away. Do try to stick to your word next time.

Krinton3 wrote:<cut>

So please Nymeros, treating me like I haven't given anything any thought, and that I just started playing the game yesterday will get you nowhere. My argumentative nature has led me to replying to yet another one of your posts, but I assure you, that's all I'll say to you. It would have been great if you were constructive instead of dismissive, and informative instead of mocking, but you simply weren't trying to discuss in any positive or helpful way, simply trying to dismiss everything said and disregard my comments in a very flippant fashion.

I won't even comment on your suggestion again, as it is totally absurd. Even you are able to nullify your pros with your cons, it's absolutely the same as if buffpots worked only on a given day of the week. Your suggestion has no substance, I could now claim to make a ZOMG BRAND new suggestion: limit buffpots to... wait for it... wait for it.... THREE!!! And then write a wall of text with pros and cons which make no sense whatsoever outside their paragraph.

And about my attitude, you reap what you sow.

Krinton3 wrote:So please, just because I don't have massive experience fighting self-buffers with a non-self buffer (I played with a buff bot on live, and play a smite cleric here), doesn't make me ignorant on how this game works. I'm still somewhat new to Uthgards 50 RvR scene, but it's very hard for a player in my timezone to find good action.

No, being ignorant makes you ignorant. And making a victim of yourself makes you... a victim. Of yourself. I also haven't played on Uthgard for long, so on some issues I trust people who did.

Krinton3 wrote:...

Eh, forget it, I've made my point many times. I think it'd be good for balance to prevent people from using buff pots like buff bots. I also hope that Eclipsed realizes that there's not much to gain from further discussions of this, and I hope that the Staff is able to read this behemoth of a thread and use it to help them come to any further decision on this subject.

For now, though, I'm out. It's too low key of an issue to put this much effort into (despite how much I feel my logic is sound).

Eclipsed is a troll. I hope everyone realizes that. And bye, again.

Eclipsed wrote:Yes the ranger can pick his targets, get the suprise on his enemy and start from range. But for free, hell no.
[...]
Now in my tests if the BM did use his tools with triplewield, flurry and so on, while the ranger used stealth and bow, and his buffs, it would of been a balanced fight still, and that is with the BM unbuffed.

You really don't get it.
Try to run with a Hero/BM/Champ/VW solo.
After a while (farmed by duos/trios/groups, classes you can't kill) you will notice there is a huge advantage the ranger has. And you will notice why not every class has to be balanced against each other in 1on1.

You can't balance a whole game by looking at one/two classes.
And you can't proof that buffpotions/charges (even Buffbots) are not included in the whole game balance, just because a ranger loose against BMs.
I don't cry about Druids can't kill most solo classes, because they are not designed for. Even without buffpots/charges.

Eclipsed wrote:zzzzzz come on opposition, bring up something new to dis prove my points and the thread, starting to get bored of the same alrdy dis proven points given agenst myn.

Try google searching for better points. Thats the only help your going to get from me.

TO MODERATORS:
Please show at least some common sense and lock this topic. This is the behavior of a troll. He brings no arguments to the table, hopes to somehow imply that he has previously "won" in some way (although he didn't) and taunts the opposition in hopes of either provoking a response that will enable him to troll more, or tiring them out and again falsely claiming some pathetic "victory".


1.) All of his arguments have been countered.
2.) He has many times demonstrated a severe degree of ignorance about this game.

Won't get locked, staff agree with eclipsed

Nymeros wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:zzzzzz come on opposition, bring up something new to dis prove my points and the thread, starting to get bored of the same alrdy dis proven points given agenst myn.

Try google searching for better points. Thats the only help your going to get from me.

TO MODERATORS:
Please show at least some common sense and lock this topic. This is the behavior of a troll. He brings no arguments to the table, hopes to somehow imply that he has previously "won" in some way (although he didn't) and taunts the opposition in hopes of either provoking a response that will enable him to troll more, or tiring them out and again falsely claiming some pathetic "victory".


1.) All of his arguments have been countered.
2.) He has many times demonstrated a severe degree of ignorance about this game.

+1

Open your eyes please, mods... for once it's totally welcome to lock this darn thread.

@Eclipsed, every argument has been brought, they all countered yours easily, though you seem to think that's not sufficient. The only arguments that haven't been sufficient are yours, now drop it. Thank you.

You were all warned and apparently now eclipsed has also turned into spamming and offtopic-ing so guess it is time to close this


ps. I am really upset with all you "backseat modders", if you aren't a mod then don't act like one!

pps. if you do not understand why something is done/isn't done then ask those who have done it / haven't done it why instead of making false accusations on something you have no idea on

(just to quote myself on why this topic hasn't been locked before now:

maybe you should consider that this could happen if you look at staffs comments, that is why it hasn't been locked

if staff said:

We will never alter or remove pots/charges

I would say:
Okay then there is nothing to discuss, closed

but now you have all become too much offtopic and flamy and whiny so now it is time to lock it - just be glad warnings haven't been given out)

Locked

Neju wrote:Won't get locked, staff agree with eclipsed

Shh.. don't tell anyone..