Forumbuffpots and charges in a non-buffbot classic setting
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*sigh*... Again: buff potions and charges are no liquid buffbot. Seriously, please stop using this phrase because is implicates something that is not true. Buffbot != buff potions and charges, hence buff potions and charges != liqiud buffbot.
Plus - as I sated two posts ago in detail and summarized again in this post - there are some big differences between buffbots and buff potions and charges. |
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So far of what ive been hearing, the counter agrument is that charges and pots is a counter to self buffing classes, and to give access to ablities that only some classes have, like debuffs.
Also since there was charges and pots during 1.54+, you believe it should stay on the server. So on the first agrumenet, the problem is everyone is looking at buffs, like everyones proformance is equal to every other class. Like a warden, ranger, bard, healer, friar, and so on are all equal to non self buffing classes, when they are not self buffed. But to fight that agruement i found that during patch 1.51, mythic give the champion there self buff of str/con, to balance the class out with others, which proves self buffing classes are not equal without there buffs. http://www.camelotherald.com/news/news_ ... toryid=389 - Added a self strength/constitution buff to the Champion Valor spec track to make them more competitive with tank classes that have higher natural constitutions: So if a champ now uses a str/con self buff, and a tank uses a almost as good str/con charge, that would reduce the effects of the champs self buff, which goes agenst what mythic intended it to do. Now on the other point about charges and pots being on live at 1.54, you could also look at it as buffbots where on live at that time too, but we dont want them on uthgard, we can look at are current setup with 1.8 patch, where is ToA setup and MLs. What ever was on live, is how mythic balances things out over time. And since self buffing classes where here for a lot longer then buffbots, alchemy, and charges, i believe buffbotting had inspirted mythic to find away to counter the mass buffbotting, for those who cant afford or couldnt run 2 accounts. Example a hero vs a warrior with no buffs is equal, but a hero with buffbot vs a warrior is way to unfair, but give the warrior access to charged buffs and pots in alchemy and he had at least a better chance then before. COUNTER to buffbots. As long as we keep these mass buffing pots and charges, we have to have buffbots allowed, that is how it is on live. Even if it destroys the game play for some. |
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MYTHIC INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO USE POTIONS. THE HAVE BEEN IN GAME WAY BEFORE ToA. DAOC IS NOT BALANCED FOR 1 VS 1. Read. Comprehend. Thank you. |
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Alchemy was introduced to DAoC during a Shrouded Isles patch. (Your capslock key seems to be defect.) |
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Shrouded Isles was introduced with Patch 1.56. Spellcrafting and Alchemy were introduced with Patch 1.54. Hence Spellcrafting and Alchemy were introduces before the release of Shrouded Isles. Hence Spellcrafting and Alchemy are of DAoC Classic origin. q.e.d. |
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How was the status of buffbotting before 1.54. You dont think mythic just added in pots, to help lower the effects of buffbotters. And Alchemy wasnt only about pots, its major role is effects, charges and reactives and a few other things. Pots are a small role.
And i never claimed alchemy came in during toa or something. I was giving an example about something else. Plz re-read. What i ment is, uthgard is at 1.8 wiht new RAs and we do not have ToA items/ML and so on, which the current patch is balanced according to what it had on live at that time. But we dont have all that, same goes for no buffbots. The lack of access to buffbotting, should be a lack of pot/charged buffbotting. |
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(As does your memory.) Thx Der_Eisbaer for the clarification. |
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Der_Eisbaer, you have inputted an INVALID COMMAND.
Perhaps you would like some HELP? >HELP You have requested help. Do you have a question? >WHAT IS A BUFF POT? A buff pot is an item that is used to provide buffs to a player. >WHAT IS A BUFF BOT? A buff bot is a character that is used to provide buffs to a player. >ARE THEY THE SAME THING? Kinda. Buff pots take more work, though, and require you to keep paying and crafting. >SOUNDS LIKE A PAIN IN THE ASS. It is. >DO YOU NEED BUFF POTS TO SOLO? Yes. >SO THEN YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH A PAIN IN THE ASS TO SOLO? Yes. >WHY CAN'T WE HAVE BUFF BOTS? THOSE ARE LESS PAINS IN OUR ASSES! Because buff bots are bad. >ARE THEY BAD BECAUSE THEY'RE LESS ANNOYING? Yes. > DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? No. >SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT BUFF POTS ARE BETTER THAN BUFF BOTS BECAUSE THEY TAKE MORE EFFORT AND HASSLE MORE PLAYERS. Yes. >SO LET'S SEE. BUFF POTS AND BUFF BOTS DO THE SAME THING, BUT SINCE ONE TAKES MORE WORK, IT'S VASTLY DIFFERENT AND BETTER? Yes. >YOU'RE STUPID. Invalid command. Perhaps you need HELP? >HELP Buff bots = Buff pots Last edited by Krinton3 on Dec 01, 2009 02:31, edited 1 time in total.
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All your change will kill uthgard.
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Yes, but you're doing it wrong. Ease of use is not the argument you're looking for. Using a bicycle to win a marathon may not be exactly the same as using a car. Claiming that it's something entirely different however makes you look like a troll that's intentionally playing dumb. The effect on RvR is pretty much the same. If you face a liquid buffed class in RvR, you better be buffed yourself if you don't want to give up any chance to win that you might have had in an botless scenario. The relevant differences show when you look at the stated reasons against buffbots. Do buffpots make buffing classes obsolete ? Will anyone exclude a buffing class from a level group because they already have buffpots ? Do buffpots create an environment where players rather play alone with their pots instead of grouping ? These negative effects on the community usually associated with buffbots are just not there with potions/charges. And this is pretty much the one justification for keeping liquid buffbots on a server that doesn't allow botting otherwise. I'd personally still rather play on a server completely free of any form of buffbotting, as for me the current situation mixes some of the worse aspects of buffbots and toa . But that's just as much a matter of taste as the initial decision to exclude buffbots, and toa for that matter. Oh, and one thing concerning the much discussed influence on class balance: I actually think that it won't be selfbuffing classes that are the big winners if pots/charges ever get removed. The classes most incompatible with this current form of botting are casters. Funny enough, they were among those that got the most out of regular buffbotting, but as the most fragile classes, they have the higest upkeep to pay for liquid botting, and additionally as low strength classes are the least capable of hauling lots of barrels around. Removing liquid buffs may very well end up as a solo caster buff more than anything else. |
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If alchemy and spellcraft were implemented before SI, that craft is clasic daoc and shouldn´t be removed. When old ras will be implemented this server will run with 1.65 patch. There isn´t nothing to remove.
In my opinion this is should be end of this discussion. |
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Well, this argument doesn't hold, because buffbots were classic daoc too, available from the beginning of the game actually, so much earlier than alchemy even, and they are still 'removed' from Uthgard. |
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First, BBing was introduced after SI if im right.
Reason : Classic DAoC didnt have option to Alt+Tab, they implemented it alot later. End of Story. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do no solo as savage cause i know its not ment as solo class even with Buff Potions. |
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Running two instances of the client on one computer was introduced somewhere around that time. Since that is not required for using a buffbot at all, it's pretty irrelevant to the current discussion. "End of Story!"  |
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Well before that only FEW was using buff bots, and mostly those were players also. So the dual log gave acces to log BB for everyone. |
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