And who would you replace in the alb 8man for a friar? There just is not space for a friar unfortunately.

Friars a a good class, but a paladin can provide the resistance buffs also.

Gerbald: mercs and bms specced in shield usually swap between shield and dual wield for slam respectively dps.

Midgard tank pugs are the easiest form of pug in the game. Its relatively easy to find every class compenent you need. And the game plan is so simple. Run in and bash (assist) and hope you win. This strategy is simple yet quite strong when playing with random players youve never played with before without voice ip. This is even more evident in open field battle in the bgs with alot of new players where a good setup mid tank pug is strong as hell.

However I do believe a decent good alb group with some teamplay (voice ip and a game plan) got the upper hand, even if the mid tank group is an experienced guild group. Assuming the mid group dumps some RAs like sos and aog I assume the alb group can dump RAs like bof and twf.

An example scenario:

Midgard tank group:
Healer(pac)
Healer(aug)
Shaman
Skald
Melee dps (zerk/svg)
Melee dps (zerk/svg)
Melee dps (zerk/svg)
Melee dps(zerk/svg/warrior)

They see an alb group open field pops celerity and sos and sprints towards the albs with the gameplan to melee assist them to death with the support a bit behind.

Alb hybrid group:
Cleric
Cleric
Sorc
Theurg
Reaver
Paladin
Merc
Cabalist (possibly another merc)

Theurg pets + caba pets on the midgard support and cabalist spam ns and disease. Dump bof and let bof + di absorb the first assist hits. when sos is gone dump tfw and pala/reaver/merc slam the tank train that are diseased and assist one of the tanks at a time. Run around in the twf and let it damage the tank train. Theurg/caba/sorc (sorc charmed pet, + caba pet, massive ammount of theurg pets) can either petspam/ns/disease/debuff(amnesia interupt the midgard support or dps nuke ( which interupts as well).

This is all of course in theory an needs some teamwork that is hard to do for pugs. But from my experience a well played alb hybrid group beats a well played midgard tank group ( even if its not a random pug ).

Conclusion is that midgard tank groups are easy to learn, easy to set up with random players, easy game plan but are not impossible to stop and do not peak performance with great skill vs hybrid alb groups with great skill.

Midgard hybrid groups with some ns runemaster(s) are harder to play but with good teamplay/gameplan/experience are alot better all around.

Another whine topic.

You wont change anything.

Everything is totaly balanced.

You miss skill.

Close please.

Where is Nixian?!

KXT wrote:With speed6 on mid, celerity on inc isn't going to hit most of the tanks on inc, and celerity being 1k range/3.0s cast speed makes it difficult to use in some situations, as the aug healer is the defensive healer of the group.

Nobody notice that...? Hummm, strange how you only pick information that fit to your mind.

Cele is almost never use at inc just because of speed and cele time cast. Sometimes one tank will get it but not really more...
What KXT say is very true, nothing more to add.

The problem with albions advantage of having spec-af buff is that all
realms have it as charge.

Sordak wrote:The problem with albions advantage of having spec-af buff is that all
realms have it as charge.

teurgists pets

So Vashna, if Cele is almost no advantage to Mids, imagine there being no Celerity for Midgard. Bet you would hate it. Cant be so bad then, right?

And @Hopscotsch: Yes, i know some Merc spec 42 shield just for slam and then swap the shield for another weapon and 9s slam-stun may be worth it, but then they cannot spec 50 weapon and 50 Dual wield and thus they do less damage, which is bad for off-Tanks. I personally prefer maxed damage and let the paladin do the slamming.

And for the winning Alb strategy you posted: Yes, it looks good, but it heavily relies on one thing: Not interrupted Sorc, Theurg, Cabalist. And you do know how likely that is. They get assist trained first and either die or run if they are not already mezzed/stunned or amnesia spammed.
So while it may work against PuGs, i doubt it would work against better groups.

Gerbald:

Speccing 42 shield is a tradeoff for the bm and or merc, I agree, sometimes its worth it for a little more damage variance sometimes its not. Depends on the situation and how many other slammers there are in the group.

Sorcs and cabas are often saracens(slightly but noticeble higher dex) and should not have an issue to win amnesia/ns interupt battles vs 2 healers. If they do lose they can quickcast an aoe amnesia and/or nearsight. The theurg can jump in and throw a few 2000 range pets. (caba pet + sorc pet interupt the healers too)

The merc/pala/reaver, twf + slam(combined with bof + di) peeling the mid tanks of the casters/clerics is essential.

If the mid group stop shortly to get celerity the theurg may get of even more pets. If they sprint charge directly they may miss celerity. The mid group may suuprise the alb group from behind and win mezz. Or maybe the alb group will hit the mid group from the side and win mezz.

Its very situational!

The realm classes are relatively equal to each other with some differences like healer group celerity and theurg pet spam. It would be boring if all realm were exactly the same. (but would be hard to balance if they were all unique like in starcraft f.e.)

My abstract opinion is that I do not think celerity is in anyway more unbalanced than theurg pet spam or other realm unique abilities. (theurg RR5 is bugged though but thats off-topic).

The reason is QQ only.
Maybe GMs should open QQ section in forum.

vangonaj wrote:The reason is QQ only.
Maybe GMs should open QQ section in forum.

would be the most active part of whole forum in 1hour

I only said that what you claim with sos/aotg/cele at inc is wrong just because with speed 6, even if the aug casts very soon, tanks won't get it.
The only way to get cele at inc is to run with speed 3 what means no skald.

Cele is an advantage (not the bigger of mid imo) but other realms have there own advantages.
My GG had no rm during a long time and the hardest fights were versus Alb group with theurgist. Why? Just because 1 minute without any support is impossible to manage. All tanks wears studded (hummm... what is alb tanks... Chain... Humm...Oh wonderful...) what make them weak if they can't get heal, cure disease or anything else.
So you will tell midies to get more rm in group. Yes but why group a skald so?
Most of the time, the choice is rm or skald, take both is not a good thing. And even if you take both, if sorc, theu, caba can be easily rupt to not make their job, why the rm can make it easily?

Bak to the discussion, celerity is a good tool to make a fast fight but you only get celerity when the situation is easy. When you need to heal, rupt, defend or anything else, there is no point to cele and all that mean that you're not rupt...

Now, what about a high DPS tank with charge, deter5, stoicism, slam, chain, flurry, dirty tricks?

Oh and last but not least, think about RR5 abilities. What about, cleric, sorc or merc RR5 in front of healer, rm or zerk RR5? Of course Midies have also good RR5 like sham's one...

Too much QQ always from the same realm (and i play alb atm), all realm have their own advantages, just play with them.

Healowner wrote:

zubasa wrote:defence:
albs got spec-af and healproc from cleric

You do realize that with two clerics in group there wont be enough concentration to buff people with those also, right?

Nah, the only thing he does is pointing out how strong albion "can" be but at the same time continue playing mid. Would like to see karsten-grp on alb, but meh, they didn't even survive the lvling-stage there I heard, so nevermind.

hopscotsch wrote:Gerbald:
(...)
Sorcs and cabas are often saracens(slightly but noticeble higher dex) and should not have an issue to win amnesia/ns interupt battles vs 2 healers. If they do lose they can quickcast an aoe amnesia and/or nearsight. The theurg can jump in and throw a few 2000 range pets. (caba pet + sorc pet interupt the healers too)

Sounds nice for Albs, sure, but i have a few questions:

Did you think about AE Amnesia being baseline, so every healer has it? AE Amnesia being 2300 Range (Theurg Pets 2000, Sorc mezz 1875) and only 2s casttime? Pets 3 sec, Sorc AE mezz 3 Sec too.
And you cannot quickcast through Amnesia spam. Amnesia does not interrupt, so uninterupted casting wont help, Amnesia just makes you forget your spell, ending it immediately.
And forgetting Amnesia with range and casttime advantage and forgetting the unstoppable SOS/Charge Assisttrain thats rolling towards them, when the gap gets closed, what are Alb casters supposed to do against the mids insta CC?

Coming from behind, every group has an advantage, we dont need to talk about that, i agree. But both groups seeing each other and running towards each other, i think mids have it easier. That is not to say Albs have no chance at all, but they need more luck and/or skill and/or higher RR to make up for the advantage mids have.

Thats my personal opinion and i know all mids disagree and will say that i am just a noob who does not know how to play his class and has no skill and QQs all day and all that, but i say: Try to play an Alb Caster in 50s group RvR and then say that again.

Vashna wrote:My GG had no rm during a long time and the hardest fights were versus Alb group with theurgist. Why? Just because 1 minute without any support is impossible to manage

So you say your group let the Theurg cast Pets on all of your supporters and you did not attack, CC or iterrupt him? You think that was smart?

Vashna wrote:All tanks wears studded (hummm... what is alb tanks... Chain... Humm...Oh wonderful...) what make them weak if they can't get heal, cure disease or anything else.

So you say your Assist train went to kill the Tanks and failed and you did not attack the healers and casters? You think that was smart?

Seriously, posting your fails as a Mid is not a valid argument for showing how strong other realms are!

Vashna wrote:
Most of the time, the choice is rm or skald, take both is not a good thing.

lol because replacing one of the 3 zerks/savages that mid grps can get with a runie would be such a HUGE loss...
u can grp a skald and runie and still have more dps than hib and alb grps lol, dont kid yourself.

healer,healer,sham,skald,runie,zerk,zerk (or savage),warr...i dont really see the problem there. dmg = great, good free floating skald can rupt well, runie can ns in backfield and kill theurg pets.

and btw albs and mids are fine 8v8...hibs suck the most. wardens dont have slam so you have to add another defensive class so u lose more dps, then enchanters debuff sucks nuts. vws dont have disease. I don't understand why this server wont fix vw's and wardens...is it too hard to implement?