Gerbald wrote:Eclipsed has a hard time against Minstrels.
With all relics now they have +10% magic damage and +10% melee damage and they benefit from both of it.
Looks like Eclipsed went fotm blade spec to have an advantage against leather too. Too bad Minstrels wear 27% Abs chain and now he gets a 10% penalty instead of 10% Bonus against chain, like pierce users get.
Now with all those disadvantages he dies to a R9L5 Minstrel and has a new mission: Remove buffs from minstrels (see his other thread) and reduce their damage too.

Blades is neu to all albs, not 10% penality. Look it up if you need to . And the other threat has nothing to do with this bug report, its about self buffs.

Please stop posting without proof.

Thank you.

you really are a stubborn one and are getting on my nerves.

this is all you'll get from me:

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/610/minststat01.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2321/minststat02.jpg

you're obviously comparing apples and oranges. you can see yourself that your values have irregularities. both of my DD's have the same % damage increase compared to their delve values, while yours do not match. either live changed something and calculates damage differently, or you have done something wrong. either way, I'm out. keep having fun.



P.S. Nixian I cannot believe you took this topic as an example of a good bug report. Just.... LOL

well u mention elrill rr9l5 minst...

alb has 10% + magic
wonder how much mom he has
wonder how much aug acuity he has (raises charisma hence dd)

doubt there is something wrong here except for a clever solo spec minstrel.

@dummy test on Uthgard

I remember there are internal resists implemented ?!
At least they aren't shown in the chatmenu.

Nicely done eclipsed ! i will help you my friend, i have acces to a skald that is full DDs on uthgard , i l test with him vs a player and then i l make a skald with same spec on Pendragon and hit a player also with both dds , its hybrid also. Will take me some time .. i had the impression that mincers hit abit too hard too .yet i cant really tell, we ll find out about skalds.

Eclipsed I suggest to test at first without any over spec bonus. It just mixes too many unknowns together.

So test what max damage you get for Spec 50. And tell the amount of Charisma.

According to 238 Charisma mentioned in the first post this would result in +89% bonus to delve on Uthgard.

I will admit, i miss understood some values because of this 10% relic bonus, and that i got the results from someone on uthgard. But i am changing it to address the minstrels dds both giving same % above delve dmg, when the main higher dmg one is currect, but the secondary one should be less value, as shown in my live tests. I also got a concern about how MoM and relic bonuses are added on uthgard. Like what part of the formula they are being added and if its correct. Since my one test compared an exact simular setup minstrel on live to someones on uthgard, exept i gave him MoM 4 which is 11%, to make up for the relic bonus on uthgard, and the result showed that the 10% relic bonus gave more on uthgard. Does MoM bonus get added into the dmg formula, like the relic bonus or not, if so, then there is a minor issue to be address too.

Im sure alot of the minstrels power was from RR and having buffs, as a non buffing class, as stated in my other thread.

Blue or Nix, do you have an idea of a way i could test on live, to how MoM should be adding to the dmg formula for these shouts, if they are incurrectly added ? And Blue will go on live anyway and get a 50 spec test, along with 55 spec.

ops made a mistake with delve, read on.

you know that ANY buff on the minne do NOT increase magic damage.

the acu buff or acu charge does NOT increase charisma (the minnes casting atribut). both working for clothwearing chars only.

so the only way to increase magic damage of minne can be done by realmabilitys
MoM, AugCharisma, WP
the same goes for his manapool
eternal bond, AugCharisma

go do your ''homeworks'' better befor blaming a class to benefit of buffs that they might have had when the class killed you, since this was a failure.

Buffs can increase hp, melee, and defenses more then intended, so yes buffs to help. Because if it didnt, then removing it shouldnt be a problem.

And while i was re-creating a minstrel on live again, to get the 50 spec and 55 spec for blue, i had noticed something. The delve on the second shout is not 149, but 139, which when i looked at my tests do make the prim and secondary shouts the same % about delve value. OOPS lol. It was early, i was tired and so on, we all make mistakes, only diff is ill admit it if i find myself at fault. Ill change the first post, im still going to get the other two tests for blue anyway. And i still want to know how i can test the mom on live, to see how it should be factored into the formula, if its correct or not.

Sorry all, i just wish someone would of noticed my delve value was incurrect, to save some time, but i guess im the only one here testing on live , then just making agruments to save there class, kinda like what goes on in the buff thread lol.

Minstrel Live Test (50 Spec)
___________________________
50+0 spec +0 from RR
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4442/min ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 280 (75.00% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 245 (76.25% above delve value)


Minstrel Live Test (55 Spec)
___________________________
50+5 spec +0 from RR
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/201/mi ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 288 (80.00% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 250 (79.85% above delve value)


Minstrel Live Test (60 Spec)
___________________________
50+0 spec +10 from RR
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2808/min ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 282 (76.25% above delved value)
139 DD = hit for 245 (76.25% above delved value)


Minstrel Live Test (65 spec)
___________________________
50+5 spec +10 from RR
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4825/m ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 288 (80.00% above delved value)
139 DD = hit for 250 (79.85% above delved value)


Minstrel Live Test (69 Spec)
___________________________
50+9 spec +10 from RR
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7122/m ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 293 (83.12% above delved value)
139 DD = hit for 254 (82.73% above delved value)

Here is the 50 spec and 55 spec tests. Im finding that + skill adds to the dmg, but +skill from your RR doesnt add to the dmg. Not sure how it works on uthgard.

Minstrel Live Test (59 spec)
___________________________
50+9 spec +0 from RR
190 chrisma
no Ra's

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/745/mi ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 293 (83.12% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 254 (82.73% above delve value)


Minstrel Live Test (61 spec)
___________________________
50+11 spec +0 from RR
190 chrisma
no Ra's

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7544/min ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 296 (85.00% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 257 (84.89% above delve value)


Minstrel Live Test (73 spec)
___________________________
50+11 spec +12 from RR
190 chrisma
no Ra's

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6995 ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 296 (85.00% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 257 (84.89% above delve value)

Eclipsed wrote:Minstrel Live Test (73 spec)
___________________________
50+11 spec +12 from RR
190 chrisma
no Ra's

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6995 ... ec190s.jpg

160 DD = hit for 296 (85.00% above delve value)
139 DD = hit for 257 (84.89% above delve value)

and now check my Uthgard results with +11 skill bonus and compare the results.

Eclipsed wrote:And while i was re-creating a minstrel on live again, to get the 50 spec and 55 spec for blue, i had noticed something. The delve on the second shout is not 149, but 139, which when i looked at my tests do make the prim and secondary shouts the same % about delve value. OOPS lol.

I'm just... speechless.

Eclipsed wrote:And while i was re-creating a minstrel on live again, to get the 50 spec and 55 spec for blue, i had noticed something. The delve on the second shout is not 149, but 139, which when i looked at my tests do make the prim and secondary shouts the same % about delve value. OOPS lol.

Things like that have happened to the greates people so it is nothing to be ashamed of. I mean that is what discussions are for: to verify stuff you did not understand and it is abolutely well done to admit an error.