Along with everything else mentioned:
Since when do "tests" consist of making ONE cast with each DD Live and NO casts on Uthgard? Oh, right, you made two one-cast tests! That's like... two times more of wrong!

Reroll irl plz.

ah come on guys give him some slack....

everyone knows that 2 casts from a minstrel means all hybrid dd's are broken.

/sarcasm off

Amadeth wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:

Amadeth wrote:

Eclipsed wrote:Uthgard
________________
RR9 Minstrel

DD1 = 111 value / hit for 253 dmg (128% greater then delve)
DD1 = 128 value / hit for 292 dmg (128% greater then delve)

[05:26:23] [xxx] hits you for 225 damage! <- vs 23% body
[05:26:23] [xxx] hits you for 195 damage! <- vs 23% body

You are either lying, have somehow provided incorrect data or have faced a minstrel with high levels of aug Acu and MoM. I, as a RR5 minstrel, come not even close to those values vs. capped resists. Against someone with ~25-26% body resists my 128 delve DD does about 160 damage, the other about 130.

You can come for a test anyday sir.

Gerbald wrote:Looks like someones Ranger lost to a Minstrel (who has +10% melee and magic damage right now)

somehow I believe this to be the case. jesus ****** christ, I thought his "remove alchemy" topic was too much, then this...

What is your total spec in insterments with skill bonus ? How much chrasma do you have ? What Ras do you have that my influence it, if any . Then just go to the test dummys and hit them, and take a screenshot, since the dmg doesnt vary.

how about you come and do the tests with me? i don't give a ****** how much you hit the dummy for after casting DD's one time on a dummy. go do a test on a live target and do 3000 casts on live, then here and compare.

oh wait, live DD's have a different delve and unless you have the exact matching numbers both here and on live, your tests mean nothing.

I have 50+15 instuments and 190 charisma, by the way.

lol 3000 hit test , ok here i go

hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
hit for 292 dmg
........ 3000 tests, WOW no varience, i guess i didnt need to do so many hits to test it. You should of known that alrdy. That is why you can easly test it yourself on uthgard. 190 chrasma, 50+15 spec, and use both dds on a test dummy and show it on here, and ill get the same from live. Just have to add 10% relic to yours. You dont need to hit a player, to test it , just a test dummy because of 0% resist is what we need. And what we are testing isnt the overall dmg, but the % above delve value. Cant get 128 value dd on live, look it up.

I don't need to test anything sir. It is you who is going to do the tests.
You've been HIT by a minstrel (probably a crit) and claim he does way too much damage. How the ****** did you test that? By going to live and hitting a dummy with different delve DD's? You have no idea what the minstrel hitting you was specced and whether it was a crit.

You lost, you came here crying for nerf. Learn to play, suck it up or leave.


... or, simply, prove your claims.

your funny.

If it was a crit, then he/she got a crit on each dd, because i got more in my chat log.

[05:26:23] Elrill hits you for 225 damage!
[05:26:23] Elrill hits you for 195 damage!

[05:26:48] Elrill hits you for 225 damage!
[05:26:48] Elrill hits you for 195 damage!
[05:26:48] Elrill critical hits you for an additional 89 damage! <-- omg a crit and it says its a crit. Geez kid, have you actualy played the game and looked at how the game works ? Crits are additional, not added to the displayed value.

Eclipsed wrote:Crits are additional, not added to the displayed value.

indeed, this is true, however irrelevant in this discussion. if you can prove what you claim, go on. somehow I doubt you will. good luck.

Actually they just reworked* Spellcasting, because it was NOT doing enough dmg (e.g. Lifedrain).

But kinda strange that we compare spells thats have been changed on live.

Amadeth it would be indeed helpful to provide dummy data just costs you 8min+8min port-time. yay .

U remember the svg discussion? How many svg did the test actually ?
I mean of those that are RvR active. Again our community shows how much we fail :s. Just go there and provide some minimal data.
We are better than MID


Greetz
Nes

sigh, alright. i'll give you dummy data when I get home.
I still claim you cannot compare different delve spells and amount of actual damage they do over the delve.

Minstrel Live Test (60 Spec)
___________________________
50+10 spec
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2808/min ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 282 (76% above delved value)
149 DD = hit for 245 (64% above delved value)


Minstrel Live Test (65 spec)
___________________________
50+15 spec
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4825/m ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 288 (80% above delved value)
149 DD = hit for 250 (68% above delved value)


Minstrel Live Test (69 Spec)
___________________________
50+19 spec
190 chriasma
no Ra's

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7122/m ... ec190c.jpg

160 DD = hit for 293 (83% above delved value)
149 DD = hit for 254 (70% above delved value)


Champion Live Test (65 spec)
___________________________
50+15 spec
190 intel
Aug acuity 1 (4 intel to hit 190)

160 DD = hit for 287 (79% above delved value)


As you can see both the champ and minstrel with the same stats and spec, do about the same dmg, for some reason off by 1 dmg. To show that, non pure casters, hybrids are on a simular dmg table, then the pure casters. I also showed the diffrience between 60, 65, and 69 spec and how much of a % it adds above the delve value.

And why cant you compare a 160 value dd, to a 128 value dd of the same spec class, and same dmg stat and so on. Its the % above delve we are looking at, not how much dmg they did.

So now all i need is some help from people on uthgard, to get a champ and minstral, and match my live stats and spec, and consider in any relic bonuses, to show if im currect or not. There is allwes a possiblity i could be, so your help will make this more clear. And no im not going to level up a champ to 50 and a minstrel to 50 on uthgard to do tests, that would take forever. All you need to do , to test it is, drop some items or what ever to get 50+15 skill, 190 dmg stat, and no mom. Then go to a test dummy and blast it with both DDs, then screenshot your char stats and dmg and post them here. Thanks.

you'll excuse the graphics, I'm still at work, using an old notebook.
here you go:




As I said, my charisma is 190, just like in your live test. +instru obviously does not raise the cap, since our values match even with your 50+19 opposed to my 50+15.

Now, lets analize:

first DD (delve 128) hits for 261 damage. if we remove the relic bonus (10%), we get a value of 235 damage (261*0.90 = 235)
235 damage without relic bonus. That is exactly 83.6% higher than delve value of the spell (128 damage). Do your math. That also matches your live result for first DD with 190 charisma.

235 / 128 * 100 = 183.5% of delve value (83.5% increase)


second DD (delve 111) hits for 226. removing relic bonuses we get a value of 203.4 damage.

203.4 / 111 * 100 = 183% (83% increase).


so, what I can conclude here is that the damage is quite livelike and pretty much according to your live tests, except that live obviously has some irregularities (see the differences in champs and minsts DDs). Why those irregularities exist I have no idea, but here, both DD's, with 190 charisma and 65 instru hit for 83% above delve value.

I think we can lock this bullshit now unless you can provide some better data or formulas to support your claims.

Eclipsed wrote:So now all i need is some help from people on uthgard, to get a champ and minstral, and match my live stats and spec, and consider in any relic bonuses, to show if im currect or not. There is allwes a possiblity i could be, so your help will make this more clear. And no im not going to level up a champ to 50 and a minstrel to 50 on uthgard to do tests, that would take forever. All you need to do , to test it is, drop some items or what ever to get 50+15 skill, 190 dmg stat, and no mom. Then go to a test dummy and blast it with both DDs, then screenshot your char stats and dmg and post them here. Thanks.

yes, I'm sure all the champs and minsts are so eager to prove their damage is way higher than it's supposed to be. good luck with that lol.

To make your test valid, please show a screenshot of your spec, and chrisma, like you said, who would want to prove there values are higher then what they should be. And higher spec does increase the dmg , same with a lower spec.

Also like i said, on live there was some kinda outpost bonus to all dmg on live, but no value desplayed, so im not sure what effect if any it has on my tests.

And to remove the relic bonus from your test, its not dmg * .9, because that is saying your removing 10% of the whole value , which will remove more then it should. To get a currect value do it this way.

261 / 110 (<-- since dmg is 10% above normal) * 100 = 237.27 is the currect value, because just add 10% to that and it comes to 261. But add 10% to what you got and you get 258, close but still want to be as currect as possible.

But anyway, provide the spec and stat.

I can't believe anyone even took you seriously enough to test it, you have no proof whatsoever about the damage you allegedly received on Uthgard, not even a screenshot.

This isn't a bug report, this is a "LOL PROVE ME WRONG" thread, and it should've been locked immediately.

Eclipsed has a hard time against Minstrels.
With all relics now they have +10% magic damage and +10% melee damage and they benefit from both of it.
Looks like Eclipsed went fotm blade spec to have an advantage against leather too. Too bad Minstrels wear 27% Abs chain and now he gets a 10% penalty instead of 10% Bonus against chain, like pierce users get.
Now with all those disadvantages he dies to a R9L5 Minstrel and has a new mission: Remove buffs from minstrels (see his other thread) and reduce their damage too.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5905/min ... ec190s.jpg

Same setup as that minstrel on uthgard, as he claims, exept i got MoM4, which is 11% spell dmg, 1% greater then the relic on uthgard. So my % above delve should be a little higher then his.

160 DD = hit for 320 (100% above delve value)
149 DD = hit for 278 ( 86% above delve value)

His test

128 DD = hit for 261 (104% above delve value)
111 DD = hit for 226 (104% above delve value)

As you can see, he still gains more with 10% relic, then i did with 11% mom. Is these two bonuses added into the formula at diff times ? And his second DD was 18% higher then it should of been.