zubasa wrote:

elTakapiru wrote:there is simple solution to that problem, remove SI classes.

Oh nooooo! we loose the 1-green pet carrying bd?

Savages are a SI class by the way.

Most of you miss to understand the defensive and offensive mechanisms. I have been talking about overall defense ratings, not just about the defense of single classes. It is a combination of overall defense/offense that may be achieved by using certain group setups. Another point is that you are mixing up classes purpose and/or abilities. Lets take the Armsman for example:

high ABS
high HP
very high "burst dmg" but low attack speed

To effectively use such a class in RvR you would need to combine several classes with a high or very high burst-dmg. Burst dmg or the in other games so called "alpha strike" is meant to break through a targets defense and kill it even before it may be healed.

Now throw in an experienced and well switching Paladin. Everyone in the group will now benefit of:

- Heal Chant
- AF Chant
- more chants: e.g. endu, dmg add

Especially the HealChant and AF chants are boosting the overall defense of your group. That's a special feature only Albion has access to.

Now throw in a Minstrel. Your group is going to benefit of:

- Speed
- Ablative Song!


=> Your group becomes even more defensive while keeping still a nice portion of offensive capabilities while still having a lot more group slots to fill. When taking a closer look on some defensive abilities at first they look not that strong, but when combined with other classes abilities you are receiving a huge benefit when combined. And keep in mind ... a Midgard group for example is not able to receive such a defensive boost!
__________

Ok, now keeping in mind that for example Midgard is not able to "create" such a high defense we are taking a closer look onto the realm abilities (OF/NF).

NF: Mids gain high defense through "DI". Especially when having high-RR healers the possible overall used DIpool is huge. Now let the Mid Healer throw in BoF and the group becomes almost invincible versus melee attacks. Keep in mind that DI, BoF and so on are on more or less short duration timers.

OF: Mids may only gain a short defensive boost by using a healers Battery of Life. There is no BoF to achieve a very high defense. The abilities are on pretty long timers (30min).

==> So, NF-RAs offer Mids to achieve a very high defense while having already a high offense. They are able to counter incoming melee dmg by simply clicking one button that is most likely always available.

OF is taking out that advantage meaning that the overall defense may be pushed a little bit by using Battery, but thats it. Without for example BoF Mids are also not able to completely counter incoming "mediocre to high" melee-dmg of an Alb group.

_________


You always have to keep in mind that the former OF system was created as some kind of casing around the different realms and thatfor offered a perfect fit. When Mythic released NF, they simply cut off these perfect fits and gave each realm access to every realm ability. This means that they threw in a system that simply was not balanced in terms of the different realms "basic abilities". I mean, why should the meant to be meleeDPS realm have access to for example celerity AND BoF!?

The solution is simple ... as NF offers each realm to choose between all available RAs, each realm should in conclusion have access to all "basic abilities" (e.g. celerity, baseline stuns, and so on) OR you simply make a step back and use the RealmSystem that used to offer the "perfect fit" for each realm.

So Sethor we saw mid and alb there but where is hib ?

*cough* mid abs buff on bonedancer *cough*

Albs could have nice melee assist trains if necromancer was implemented. Hibs if warden got celerity. But it's not fair, mid tanks would have competition then ;p

Sethor wrote:=> Your group becomes even more defensive while keeping still a nice portion of offensive capabilities while still having a lot more group slots to fill. When taking a closer look on some defensive abilities at first they look not that strong, but when combined with other classes abilities you are receiving a huge benefit when combined. And keep in mind ... a Midgard group for example is not able to receive such a defensive boost!

Really ?

- Heal Chant => 50 hp every 10 seconds is not even noticeable
- AF Chant => doesn't stack with spec AF/AF charge.
- more chants: e.g. endu, dmg add => mids can have all this

- Speed => mids have it
- Ablative Song! => a small advantage indeed, if you have slot for minstrel which is not always the case.

Now take a bonedancer with 9% absorb buff and you have a much better defense that all those things you mentionned.
I could also add that every mid setup have aug healer + shaman which means they have all resists, compared to alb/hib where friars and wardens are kind of useless and can't fit in most groups, especially in hybrids/casters groups.

I'm not saying albs have crappy defense, it's right that these abilites help, but saying they have huge defense benefit compared to mid is just not true.

Now I'm wondering what is the hib advantage btw ^^

Hib has the advantage of having the weakest support classes and mediocre tanks! Oh wait...

dont forget the imba base line stun against stoi+det tanks

hibernia:
+ has pets, on druids/ench/menta
+ bm's can choose between any type of melee dam, can slam+snare
+ casters can use debuff-nuke+pbaoe with 1 spec (mana-ench)
+ light eld is the highest utility caster per se
+ hero gets free IP + 10% grp defence buff
+ hib hast best mezz class (bard), able to rupt at least 2 ppl
+ champ rr5 (absorb-turnaround) is one of the strongest in daoc

- warden without shiled-spec is missing some util
- for second demezzer, take either menta or second bard

all in all, hib is awesome for 8vs8 and anything else.

Akip wrote:dont forget the imba base line stun against stoi+det tanks

Baseline is pretty handy, you just dont have to be stupid enough to hope to win vs a det tank with stun. But hey not everybody has det:>
Do some soloing vs hib caster and u know...


Greetz
Nes

zubasa wrote:hibernia:
+ has pets, on druids/ench/menta
+ bm's can choose between any type of melee dam, can slam+snare
+ casters can use debuff-nuke+pbaoe with 1 spec (mana-ench)
+ light eld is the highest utility caster per se
+ hero gets free IP + 10% grp defence buff
+ hib hast best mezz class (bard), able to rupt at least 2 ppl
+ champ rr5 (absorb-turnaround) is one of the strongest in daoc

- warden without shiled-spec is missing some util
- for second demezzer, take either menta or second bard

all in all, hib is awesome for 8vs8 and anything else.

- Druid pet is useless, mezz breaker
- free IP? Very useful. Hero is always first target.
- About bard...amnesia is bugged, ppl cast through amnesia, has no rupt timer, a lot of bards complain about that. And anyway, mid grp just clicks SoS or insta mezz/stun.
- Champ is really imba grp char, isn't he?


Now MID!

+ buffable endu (no need to shout PLAY ENDU!)
+ perma sprint
+ VERY ANOOYING SPAMMABLE DISEASE
+ shaman free to shear buffs too
+ celerity
+ savage with wtflolhahanoshitgotohell damage
+ paci healer has HUGE crowd control
+ pom4 in grp setup
+ 9% abs from BD
+ should I mention zerker's free criting time as you mentioned free hero IP?
+ all magic resist in grp setup (a normal mid setup has aug healer and shaman)
+ ...

I shall find some more.

Isn't it awesome how no one even discusses Albion.

Funkling wrote:Albs could have nice melee assist trains if necromancer was implemented. Hibs if warden got celerity. But it's not fair, mid tanks would have competition then ;p

plus the warden groupcele is not THAT classic

zubasa wrote:+ hib hast best mezz class (bard), able to rupt at least 2 ppl

I just couldn't help myself but create a forum account and reply to this gem.

Bards are the worst mezz class, on uthgard at least. Here's why.

You are forced to use the highest possible level spells. With no focuses and this server's borked power pool you can only imagine how fast a bard can run OOP, which leads us to issue #2.

Interrupting. Lolwhat ? Amnesia is only a minor setback that resets your current spell casting to 0. It doesn't interrupt. It's on a 5 second lockout timer. Also it doesn't work 100% of the time, not even 50% tbh cause people usually just cast through it. If I use red amnesia I run OOP very quickly. If I use grey amnesia it gets resisted very often, in which case it doesn't to anything. If I spam single or aoe mez (both red) on healers or casters to rupt, I run OOP very quickly. DD has a range of 700.

Issue#3, bard's total utility since the interrupting one doesn't work at all: speed5/endu song, demezz, mezz. Speed 5 not really a must have but it's nice. Endurance, definitely a must have, takes 3 seconds to get running very easy to get interrupted. Demezz, ofc a must have. Mezz, a must have but since it's a huge part of bard's utility, everyone being immune for 60 seconds hurts the bard's usefulness in the team by a lot. Rupting in the meanwhile is unacceptable, reasons above.

Issue#4, bard's broken chant twisting. Currently, bards require a MASTERPIECE drum in order to be able to twist between endu and speed/pom correctly. I had to spend over 2 plat just for a FUNCTIONAL WEAPON. No other class has to do that (except Maidrion, he can twist chants without a MP drum for some odd reason ).

Keep your ignorant bullshit stories for yourself.

I can twist endu and speed on my level 13 bard with 99% level 30 instruments.