Murax wrote:And when Funkling says something about his personal feelings then it must be true.

Forget about all those tests that were done, his 39 Savage quads more than 4% and he prooves it very well

Believe it or not. Finding a bug is the most difficult part in programming.
From my experience here some facts about uthgard bugs:

- sm intercept 80%. staff claimed it was correctly implemented with an intercept rate of 50%. Alot people claimed they have tested it and it works. Took alot more of testing and redoing, altough the bug was obvious for many players. And guess what it was fixed finally.

- savage damage. Everything was claimed to be ok by staff/midgardians.
Guess what after 6month++ of wild savagery. Some issues with damagetables and also haste came finally up. But that doesnt necessarily mean this is the end of bugfixing.

I am a programmer myself. Programming is easy, finding bugs is what costs time And programming DAOC, when everybody claims its OK,
doesnt make your life easier :p

Greetz
Nes

though murax has a point,
whenever you play a class yourself you dont notice things which are out of the ordinary
take SM pet: im probably one of the players with most /played on a SM, still i didnt notice the error, why? because i never used the first pet which had 80% intercept instead of 20%
people who play savages usually dont read their logs and see "oh, here i did so and so many quadhits, outstanding"
just like valewalker players just buffed their absorb and ran into rvr

now when a guy who faced savages as enemies makes a savage and "tests" its obvious that he thinks when he does a triple or quad "omg, i just did one 2 minutes ago, this is way too often"

IF you do any testing, run a log, if you must, post the log and let someone else do the work or do the work yourself, thats the way it's always been on uthgard and always will, if you think something is buggy, prove it
Else the staff might waste hours of testing and readjusting on something that wasnt even wrong to begin with


edit: btw the 50% intercept pet was always in correctly, you cant switch numbers on 50% ^^
what was switched was the intercept of the lowest intercept-pet, from 20% to 80%

It was just a perfect example for a situation. Where every single enemy player said: SM pet intercepts way to high. And altough, alot test where done, showing us its OK.. The End of the story was it was NOT OK.

Maybe there is little truth behind all the svg whining? Who knows? Indeed we need logs. And logs from RvR people. Strange that no RvR active Savage presents some dmg tests.. Just 10min of afk beating the doll and u see the crit chance. Maybe another 10min of pushing style button on a doll and your done. As i mentioned earlier - NOBODY wants his class to be nerfed, so better stay away from testing :>.

Some time ago i opened the post : "How much damage can u do in 1min."
Maybe we should redo that under strict conditions. Only fullbuffed and only* styles that you use in RvR frequently. Recalculate crits to50% except for bersis under the duration of Berserk. etc.

But i am pretty sure all the whiners dont have the classes to test, and all the guys with rvr active savages are just not cooperative (see above).

What i think is strange is, that the community likes to nerf classes. But the more educative version is to push the weak (Keep that in mind when u have children).
What about the Wizzards dont u think this class need abit pushing here on Uth? Bolt dmg still depends on 50% dex. And wizz can either be Ogre, Briton or Avalonien. All races which huuuge amount of dex. The class itself is just as useful as a single ellyl sage pet (a bit exaggareted ).

If we go the path of custom, go for real custom and push the weak Wizzard (and Archer xD ).

Greetz
Nes

ps it is not a personel insult Phileas. U might not have used the buged pet. But other mids did for sure.

Fixing what is broken =/= nerfing.

Funkling wrote:Fixing what is broken =/= nerfing.

Not everbody participated here, wanted just fix, some wanted custom changes as well I was refering to that.

Greetz
Nes

jrhadden wrote:
What i think is strange is, that the community likes to nerf classes. But the more educative version is to push the weak (Keep that in mind when u have children).

Makes sense really. You have the power to choose not to play a wizard or whatever class but you can't choose to not play against class X or Y.

Funkling wrote:Fixing what is broken =/= nerfing.

Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

Oh the sweet, sweet ignorance.

Maidrion wrote:

jrhadden wrote:
What i think is strange is, that the community likes to nerf classes. But the more educative version is to push the weak (Keep that in mind when u have children).

Makes sense really. You have the power to choose not to play a wizard or whatever class but you can't choose to not play against class X or Y.

You didnt get my point. Neither u can make class x weak. Or all class that are weak compared to x stronger, to make em compatative. And from the educative point of view:

Imagine u have two kids. One has a big nice car, the other doesnt.
So Kid A with car. Kid B without. Of course Kid B is sad, cause Kid A has a car and he doesnt =(.
a)So neither u can take away the car from Kid A (nerfing).
b)Or you give Kid B just another Car, so they might play together?.

In RL the obvious choice is b) ( i hope).

Yep. Lets just remove the wizzard, since everybody likes to NOT choose him,but ...
when u talk about choices. Why dont YOU choose to play a Castersetup vs Mids-Stupid svg trains? I am pretty sure there is some setup/tactic which can handle those kinda enemies.


Greetz
Nes

ps.

Or from the wizzards point of view: eeek every single other class is so uber. They have more dmg, more utility, better races ...
There must be something wrong. And i dont care about life or tests.
I want them reduced to ...

i dont feel insulted as i know you and you know me... but also knowing that pretty much only one person beside me played SM in lvl 50 rvr when it was buggy so i know who you mean ^^

but from a personal point of view:
any other pbae than that of the SM is way stronger:

i can be happy to do more than 300 damage but when im in the radius of a wizard bomb with my skald i get 400++ damage
see what i mean?

if i had a lvl 50 savage id be happy to participate in testing
but since i believe in berserker being the better light tank on midgard i dont have a savage (i actually deleted my lvl 32 savage although i had various high level drops for him some while ago ^^)

using your image:
a savage group of midgard is easily countered by a albion group with 2-3 wizards with 1-2 paladins...
personally i dont care about savage dmg being nerfed or not,, i just want the "omfg mid is so OP" cries to stop
when i played on live (which is years 2001-2002 and 2006) midgard was THE underdog (on a server with 1800 people online, 400 were on midgard, paint the picture) so i dont really understand this point of view

Phileas wrote:i dont feel insulted as i know you and you know me... but also knowing that pretty much only one person beside me played SM in lvl 50 rvr when it was buggy so i know who you mean ^^

but from a personal point of view:
any other pbae than that of the SM is way stronger:

i can be happy to do more than 300 damage but when im in the radius of a wizard bomb with my skald i get 400++ damage
see what i mean?

if i had a lvl 50 savage id be happy to participate in testing
but since i believe in berserker being the better light tank on midgard i dont have a savage (i actually deleted my lvl 32 savage although i had various high level drops for him some while ago ^^)

using your image:
a savage group of midgard is easily countered by a albion group with 2-3 wizards with 1-2 paladins...
personally i dont care about savage dmg being nerfed or not,, i just want the "omfg mid is so OP" cries to stop
when i played on live (which is years 2001-2002 and 2006) midgard was THE underdog (on a server with 1800 people online, 400 were on midgard, paint the picture) so i dont really understand this point of view

Uthgard isn't the same as live and we should all stop acting like it is.

In 2001-2002 Players didnt choose their realm by fotm classes and setups

Thats why mid was the underdog and now not.

It was just that more people wanted to be a glory knight than a nordic barbarian.

Phileas wrote:a savage group of midgard is easily countered by a albion group with 2-3 wizards with 1-2 paladins...

oh yeah, the albion devils, wizard and paladin

As far as I know the chances are pretty correct and the DEVs alreay once handed out the used %-values on the different multi-hit chances. They simply were correct.
I'd simply say that the solution to the felt savage-imbalance is pretty simple ... OldFrontier RA System. The system was very much more balanced to fit into the different
realms needs. Taking Albion for example you may use as only realm the ability Bunker of Faith which was in OF a cleric-only ability offering the current ?maximum? BoF value.

I think it is absolutly wrong to simply mock around in here, especially if you do not have valid proof that your theory is correct! Every player may run some tests, and by saying
"some tests" everyone should know that "some tests" in order to find out a possible bug about the multihit chance would mean to test different possible and enduring scenarios.
A simple "how much dmg can you deal within 1min" is not really wise as usually no one is going to observe these 1-min-tests and a 1-min-test being by far too short and one-sided.


Greets,
Sethor

Sethor wrote:A simple "how much dmg can you deal within 1min" is not really wise as usually no one is going to observe these 1-min-tests and a 1-min-test being by far too short and one-sided.

Thats why i said more serious. Maybe increase the timer to 10min.
If 3-5 RvR active svgs participate, that for SURE should give you idea of the situation. Thats what this is about.

Greetz
Nes