Funkling wrote:Because on Uthgard bards can't play 2 songs at once. A group setup like that with split assist trains would own pretty much anything. Obviously you've never seen how much interrupting 2 good bards can do. Not to mention 2x demez, 2x sos, backup heals etc. A 2nd bard is far from "redundant".

The problem on Uth ist, that bards suck and tanks don't assist at all. But it's a nice Setup, if people know what to do.

Funkling wrote:

Shav wrote:Bm and vw is a good at, just remember to have bm with slam - helps a lot.

Shieldmaster and a hybrid with no stoicism, awesome assist train :p

And you called me clueless ^_^

ever tried it on uth? it does work.

And bm with 50/50 spec has almost the same damage as if he specced shield (so 50/39/42)

Funkling wrote:Because on Uthgard bards can't play 2 songs at once. A group setup like that with split assist trains would own pretty much anything. Obviously you've never seen how much interrupting 2 good bards can do. Not to mention 2x demez, 2x sos, backup heals etc. A 2nd bard is far from "redundant".

Again, a good bard can do all that.
- demezz: 4 det 5/ charge tanks (= dont need demezz). 5 min purge, basically always up.
- Don't see the point either to waste a slot for having an RA twice, that has limited use for a tank group (sure, its nice for a druid to be able to get SOS infight, but again - not worth wasting a slot if the group can play)
- backup heal - heal warden, even brings some additional utility to the group ^^
- interrupt - one good bard is already loads of rupt, and an eld would do an equal if not better job (ns, disease, debuffs), because he actually adds something to the group utility

Again, these redundant setups are just pointless - if you got 8 competent people in your group. You sacrifice a lot of utility and versatility to make up for a lack of individual player skill tbh.

Shav wrote:

Funkling wrote:

Shav wrote:Bm and vw is a good at, just remember to have bm with slam - helps a lot.

Shieldmaster and a hybrid with no stoicism, awesome assist train :p

And you called me clueless ^_^

ever tried it on uth? it does work.

And bm with 50/50 spec has almost the same damage as if he specced shield (so 50/39/42)

Dont think Uthgard is a good benchmark for what works and doesnt work or rather what setup is superior to another. Because, let's face it, the overall level here is not at all live-like. On a normal evening, you got 1 FG per realm running circles on Agra, hoping to bump into each other. Usually the same ones, too. You can get away with a sub-optimal setups and average skill because there is little competition and pressure to begin with.

Thalien wrote:Imo vw is only worth in grp if youre running full tankgrp and take vw instead of eld for disease/rupt/petclear to have no soft targets.

Vw doesn't have castable disease on Uthgard.

Shav wrote:Bm and vw is a good at, just remember to have bm with slam - helps a lot.

BM doesn't need slam, vw has a backstun which he should be able to pull off with no problems... That is if he can play

Oh lol. Didnt know that.

Then skip vw

If you got a set group i would suggest:

Druid
Druid
Bard
Light Menta
Light Menta
Mana Ench
Light Eld
BM/Hero

I am curious how you would set up an 8 man layout if Old RA's came back into play?

Lasastard wrote:Again, these redundant setups are just pointless - if you got 8 competent people in your group. You sacrifice a lot of utility and versatility to make up for a lack of individual player skill tbh.

Obviously you've never seen this setup in action, nor have you seen how much 2 bards can do.

I'm sorry but saying that you "sacrifice lots of utility and versitality" and that 1 bard can do as much as 2 bards is just dumb, and this is why:

- there's no such thing as sacrificing versatility in a group setup that can easily take on any other setup
- sacrificing utility ? What utility ? Only thing you'd be missing is nearsight and disease both coming from a single class, and I wouldn't be exaggerating when I said 90% of hib groups on Uthgard run without an eldritch and obviously win fights. Besides you don't need nearsight when you have 2 bards rupting.

Funkling wrote:

Lasastard wrote:Again, these redundant setups are just pointless - if you got 8 competent people in your group. You sacrifice a lot of utility and versatility to make up for a lack of individual player skill tbh.

Obviously you've never seen this setup in action, nor have you seen how much 2 bards can do.

I'm sorry but saying that you "sacrifice lots of utility and versitality" and that 1 bard can do as much as 2 bards is just dumb, and this is why:

- there's no such thing as sacrificing versatility in a group setup that can easily take on any other setup
- sacrificing utility ? What utility ? Only thing you'd be missing is nearsight and disease both coming from a single class, and I wouldn't be exaggerating when I said 90% of hib groups on Uthgard run without an eldritch and obviously win fights. Besides you don't need nearsight when you have 2 bards rupting.

+1

I tested 2 bards setup, and it simply rox.

Atm, on uthgard many bards are really unskilled, when they get aggro they start to runaway all the time without trying to rupt enemies ...

When you got 2 bard, you got 2 good rupt bot, 2 SOS , 2 purge, 2 demezer ...

that's really good while it's well played.

dru
dru
bard
eld or chanter for dps
eld
bm
bm
hero

If I ran an 8man on hib, it would probably be that. Solid assist train/peal tank if needed/disease/caster dps. 2 bards is a little over kill on this server compared to live. If you really want to run team naturalist drop in a warden instead of the chanter/eld. that's my 2cents anyway.

A setup which rox a lot with a good skill & teamplay

Druid
Druid
Bard
Eld
Enchant
Hero ( slam & snare bot )
BM
BM

At the moment this is imho the most reasonable setup. I think the past weeks have shown that a pure tank group has massive problems taking on hybrid groups (tanks and casters) if the hybrid group can kite. Sure, tank group is easier to play because it has no real soft targets, but against aoe disease and kiting casters it is too vulnerable.

It seems most of you have an Enchanter in your 8 man set up.

I was reading a post about Enchanters from a few months back, and everyone was saying they are useless in RvR.

Currently are they worth having in a group?

The problem is that it seems the debuff is bugged so the damage isn't really good in caster assist on hib ...

Anyway I still think that a setup with 2 pbae is really effective on this server if the def tank is a good player

As I've experimented on Uthgard, Healers can't really old massive damage for long time, with a setup with 2BM and 2 PBAE, you got 2 massive damage sources, so first enemies will dump and after they will spent really fast their mana, you can note that no one use BAoD on uthgard ... just because there are not many caster grp, all VW on uthgard will said that is quite useless with the actual RvR.
To stay on the damage source, BM will really easily do damage if the assist is good, and PBAE will do many damage on poor tanks stunned on them, and they can also go a pretty nuke train with the powerfull DD SNARE+Desease which make an assist useless and very vulnerable.

After that, you of course need a decent bard who does a good rupt job, which is very rare atm.