Why you think they use NF keeps?

carnalito wrote:I think OF will bring out more people to lvl 50 RvR.

The l33t 8vs8 groups and zergs will be in emain ofcourse, but you will be able to find small skirmishes in Odin's Gate and Hadrian's wall, im sure.

I seriously doubt that it will. unless Uthgard turns out differently then every live server/freeshard ever, which it won't.

OF=Emain + gate camping. The End.

Nymeros wrote:I seriously doubt that it will. unless Uthgard turns out differently then every live server/freeshard ever, which it won't.

OF=Emain + gate camping. The End.

I have the same idea. But I trust in server backups

Lasastard wrote:This is actually a bit sad. Just yesterday I was thinking that it is really odd to have 600 players and only a small handful running around in NF. And by that I don't mean Agramon. Agramon is the playfield for 8vs8, I guess that is well established now. But come on - if there are in fact so many people who enjoy taking and defending keeps, it should be possible to do just that in NF instead of hiding in the BGs. I would really like to see more people outgrow the BGs (both in level and skill) and just help populate the part of the game that makes DAoC so fun. Defending and raiding keeps is so much more fun in NF than in the BGs imho

Hibs had claimed Beno and all Albs were able to mobilize was one lousy group + stealther adds that spent most of the time sitting in a neighboring tower . At the same time 2 FG Albs where roaming in one of the BGs... come on -.-

I know what you mean. BGs were new when I quit live all those years ago, and I noticed a drastic drop in the number of people in the frontiers when they went live.

I can't say for sure, but I bet a whole lot of players here roll new characters to play in BGs rather than level 40+ RVR in the frontiers. It's a shame to me. I love attacking and defending keeps in large scale RVR. I'm not such a fan of roaming in 8v8 groups. There's so many other games you can do that sort of thing in, but not so many games where you can have large battles over castles, with siege weapons.

How about removing BGs entirely? Probably never happen but it wouldn't be weird for me since for most of my DAOC days there were no such thing. You leveled to at least the high 30s then participated in things like relic defense, keep defense etc. 100v100 battles were not too uncommon, and we have the population here for that.

What could be the cause for the low frontier RVR turnout other than BGs?

just an example:

i remember Hib relic was raided by 5 group albs (2-3 of them were 40+). I was in a Hib wilton Battlegroup (2 groups 40+) and i was close to be kicked out of group cuz i tried to enforce all people to follow the broadchat-call for 40+ groups of hibernians too to encounter this alb zerg and defending relic.

but i think nearly ALL of groupmembers said: "NO! they gank us! we have no chance! shut up! thats noobish idea! u dont know what u talking about!" etc. etc....

that is why uthgard dont have this large and epic fights. albs zerg even with 40+ groups, mids do sometimes too (hmm rarely^^) but "hib-mentality" is something i will never understand i think. sometimes i believ ther are no balls by these people or they just want to continue ganking some lower-skilled groups in BGs...

this is a problem of all realms, not only hib. but as u know, "hibs dont add" and this stuff so.... ahh i just stop talking about that crap now^^

hope u got my point - its a question of mentality

Holycannoli wrote:What could be the cause for the low frontier RVR turnout other than BGs?

high RR 8-mans.
suddenly Agramon becomes not so large and people like me are left hill-sitting and watching for an occasional stubborn soloer to get a jump on.
it's either that or joining a PUG, getting rolled 4 times (perhaps adding on a stealther fight once or twice) and disbanding, /qtd.

we used to run 3-4 man groups, voice comm and all... the groups lasted 20 minutes at most. too much of a hassle if you ask me. now I just log in during off-peak hours and try to get a decent solo fight or two, until I notice Zubasa's killspam. time to go!

Zappo wrote:just an example:

i remember Hib relic was raided by 5 group albs (2-3 of them were 40+). I was in a Hib wilton Battlegroup (2 groups 40+) and i was close to be kicked out of group cuz i tried to enforce all people to follow the broadchat-call for 40+ groups of hibernians too to encounter this alb zerg and defending relic.

but i think nearly ALL of groupmembers said: "NO! they gank us! we have no chance! shut up! thats noobish idea! u dont know what u talking about!" etc. etc....

that is why uthgard dont have this large and epic fights. albs zerg even with 40+ groups, mids do sometimes too (hmm rarely^^) but "hib-mentality" is something i will never understand i think. sometimes i believ ther are no balls by these people or they just want to continue ganking some lower-skilled groups in BGs...

this is a problem of all realms, not only hib. but as u know, "hibs dont add" and this stuff so.... ahh i just stop talking about that crap now^^

hope u got my point - its a question of mentality

Well I have no problem with zergs. Never have. I figure there's a large advantage in numbers, so use 'em if you got 'em.

(BTW, it's why I get upset when I see people being told not to follow someone's group, because they're "roaming". Strength in numbers man! The more the merrier!)

I don't like this 8-man-only thing I'm seeing here. If you have two groups, why tell the other to stay away? (I wasn't in the group, just observing chat). I guess my mentality is in the minority here. What's so wrong about "adding"? Some sort of fairness thing? Reduction in earned RPs? Neither matter to me as much as winning.

Albs are zerging your relic? You better respond! Leave those damned BGs and go help your realm! That's what I remember from Live all those years ago. People would stop whatever they were doing to defend their relics, even characters in their 20's. They'd even do it to defend their keeps sometimes. EDIT: This was before BGs though, when people who weren't in the frontiers RvRing were out XPing or crafting somewhere, not busy in a BG. I don't have much experience after BGs were introduced, but I do remember BGs took way too much away from frontier RvR.

(Entire realms running to defend relics led to an even bigger problem though: alarm clock raids, where one realm would purposely wait till the other had very low population)

Holycannoli wrote:

Zappo wrote:just an example:

i remember Hib relic was raided by 5 group albs (2-3 of them were 40+). I was in a Hib wilton Battlegroup (2 groups 40+) and i was close to be kicked out of group cuz i tried to enforce all people to follow the broadchat-call for 40+ groups of hibernians too to encounter this alb zerg and defending relic.

but i think nearly ALL of groupmembers said: "NO! they gank us! we have no chance! shut up! thats noobish idea! u dont know what u talking about!" etc. etc....

that is why uthgard dont have this large and epic fights. albs zerg even with 40+ groups, mids do sometimes too (hmm rarely^^) but "hib-mentality" is something i will never understand i think. sometimes i believ ther are no balls by these people or they just want to continue ganking some lower-skilled groups in BGs...

this is a problem of all realms, not only hib. but as u know, "hibs dont add" and this stuff so.... ahh i just stop talking about that crap now^^

hope u got my point - its a question of mentality

Well I have no problem with zergs. Never have. I figure there's a large advantage in numbers, so use 'em if you got 'em.

(BTW, it's why I get upset when I see people being told not to follow someone's group, because they're "roaming". Strength in numbers man! The more the merrier!)

I don't like this 8-man-only thing I'm seeing here. If you have two groups, why tell the other to stay away? (I wasn't in the group, just observing chat). I guess my mentality is in the minority here. What's so wrong about "adding"? Some sort of fairness thing? Reduction in earned RPs? Neither matter to me as much as winning.

Albs are zerging your relic? You better respond! Leave those damned BGs and go help your realm! That's what I remember from Live all those years ago. People would stop whatever they were doing to defend their relics, even characters in their 20's. They'd even do it to defend their keeps sometimes. EDIT: This was before BGs though, when people who weren't in the frontiers RvRing were out XPing or crafting somewhere, not busy in a BG. I don't have much experience after BGs were introduced, but I do remember BGs took way too much away from frontier RvR.

(Entire realms running to defend relics led to an even bigger problem though: alarm clock raids, where one realm would purposely wait till the other had very low population)

I think you won't see like that here. Unfortunaetly the oldest ppls who's are playing here are see 8v8 as a holy grail...

There is a difference between 8v8 in, say, Agramon, and keep defense. If someone tells you not to add while your relic is being raided, you're obviously dealing with an idiot and should treat him/her as such. If someone asks you not to add while they're roaming around Agra, then you're just dealing with someone whose perception of fair PvP is slightly different then yours, and that should be respected.

I run solo mostly on my friar and I try not to add ever on 1 on 1 fights unless asked, and I have met a fair amount of people from other realms who do the same, and who I respect for that. Once a stealther (forgot his name sadly) even let me heal up to full health after a fight before attacking (and pwning) me.

Bottom line: PvP is not JUST about winning for a good part of the population.

Nymeros wrote: perception of fair PvP is slightly different then yours, and that should be respected.

How can be fair an 8v8 if 1 side is rr8+ with TS/vent other side are just a fresh rr4+ pug? Equal numbers isn't means fair (from far way...)

Atm i think Amadeth have a nice conclusion from nowaday's Agra a few post before

Nymeros wrote:There is a difference between 8v8 in, say, Agramon, and keep defense. If someone tells you not to add while your relic is being raided, you're obviously dealing with an idiot and should treat him/her as such. If someone asks you not to add while they're roaming around Agra, then you're just dealing with someone whose perception of fair PvP is slightly different then yours, and that should be respected.

I run solo mostly on my friar and I try not to add ever on 1 on 1 fights unless asked, and I have met a fair amount of people from other realms who do the same, and who I respect for that. Once a stealther (forgot his name sadly) even let me heal up to full health after a fight before attacking (and pwning) me.

Bottom line: PvP is not JUST about winning for a good part of the population.

Fair is one thing. But I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm not here for fair. I can get fair dueling in some FPS or any other MMORPG, or playing some boring game like Guild Wars. That doesn't mean I cheat or value winning above all else though; it just means I think the more the merrier when it comes to RvR, and if an entire group wants to attack the lone stealther I'm fighting, please do Kill the enemy! Fair has no place in warfare.

(could also be a symptom of playing on a roleplay server on Live, and generally thinking more in roleplay terms than gameplay terms if you know what I mean) EDIT: Forgot to add, we can play all 3 realms here, which might seriously interfere with our sense of loyalty and commitment to one particular realm and wanting to see that realm succeed or even dominate.

Well what can I say, to each his own I guess. I've got no problem with that.

You're right about crossrealming and royalties, but in the end it all comes down to the player. And warfare can have a place for fairness, just think about World War 1 and the air combat code of conduct (Red Baron etc). That's how I like to think of the solo PvP game on Uth. Group PvP is another thing, agreed, but still pretty similar in my book.

hun_cactus wrote:

Nymeros wrote: perception of fair PvP is slightly different then yours, and that should be respected.

How can be fair an 8v8 if 1 side is rr8+ with TS/vent other side are just a fresh rr4+ pug? Equal numbers isn't means fair (from far way...)

Atm i think Amadeth have a nice conclusion from nowaday's Agra a few post before

We'll it's not like they can tell your realmates not to add for you, if you want adds it's usually enough just not to say anything.

And of course Amadeth is right, but he's talking about the impact of 8mans on solo/small group PvP, not the concept of fair play in general, on which 'm pretty sure he agrees with me on most points, as I was one of the permament members of the small mans he talks about.

indeed...

well to each his own, I suppose, is true.
and for me it's not about numbers. realm loyalty and all that... I think we all can agree this is history. realm loyalty was there when DAoC was released. when it was all new, fresh, unexplored; when people didn't know a thing about that "other realm" out there. back then, when a player first stepped into the frontiers, he was welcomed with complete chaos. hundreds of players running around, fighting for keeps and relics (and many were not even level 50, let alone geared out). people didn't care about fairness. they didn't care for RPs. they only cared about chasing that unknown enemy out of their territory.

I think it is pretty easy to figure out why such mentality can never again exist in this game and on this server, populated by majority of old school players that have "been there, done that" hundreds of times.

myself... I enjoy that fairness. I enjoy waiting for that other guy to heal to full health. to buff himself if I am buffed and to use the best gear he can find if it is also available to me.

with that said, if it were up to me, Nymeros and I believe a lot of other Uthgard players out there, I'd turn this server into a ****** PvP zone. yes, a pure PvP server with only safe zones being the three capital cities.
I don't care about realm pride, I want that rush of adrenaline when running through Camelot Hills, thinking twice whether I'll cross Prydwen Keep bridge or enter Mag Mell. I want to fight or negotiate for XP spots. I want to form friendship with that guy that gave me a fair fight and then let me join him for a couple of levels. I want player pride and guild pride instead of Realm pride. I want that chaos.
that freedom.

but that's just me

Ah the good old days on mordred...

All very good points, and don't get me wrong it's not like I don't like fair play; I'm just not gonna go out of my way to ensure a fair fight when I have teammates around.

And Mordred was a lot of fun Chaotic at times, but when I played my Slayers character and ran through zones just causing havoc with my guild it was a rush.

Off-topic, but did anyone else think this game would have realm invasions through the frontier keeps when they first heard about it? I was disappointed you couldn't siege and break through the frontier keeps into an enemy's realm.. That's what I thought the game would be like. It was still fun without it, but just imagine being an Albion character defending Castle Sauvage from a horde of Mids trying to bust through and rampage through your home realm.