There is no longer any reason to have this ability on my quickbar. Bow damage is not high enough on Uthgard to warrant the difficulty of using this ability, let alone the fact that it can only be fired from stealth. Uthgard players are not idiots and will not remain stationary unless forced to do so, in which case they're probably in combat. High bow spec archers have effectively been reduced to volley-monkeys with poor DPS when volley ability is on cooldown.

Can we expect an increase in bow damage to make this ability worth the trouble?

Bet you can't wait for volley to change to a 30 minute timer
I feel like I did playing my archer on live. Being beaten to death with the nerfbat. Balls to it, lets all roll assassins.

jumper9 wrote:Bet you can't wait for volley to change to a 30 minute timer
I feel like I did playing my archer on live. Being beaten to death with the nerfbat. Balls to it, lets all roll assassins.

It is not a nerf to correct a bug. Crit shots only ever worked against stationary targets on live. With a sufficient bow spec and a very slow bow you should be able to do some serious damage with a crit shot.

People stop and stand still all the time, you just have to be patient, like an assassin has to be patient to find someone solo to kill before plunging in to fight.

This is not Live, and it is not 2002. Yes, people do stand still, but they're just as likely to move randomly after you release your shot but before the arrow hits. I assume this will mess up the crit. If they know you are in the area they will certainly strafe around to disrupt your crit.

Crit shot is now effectively useless against casters. This is because to land the crit shot you must first break their BT. This requires that you fire a normal opening shot to pop the BT, and then follow up with a crit. However, you can not do this because crit shot can only be fired from stealth, and you revealed yourself with the first shot. It's a catch-22.

It is true that you could use volley on the caster in the place of Crit Shot, but volley has disadvantages of its own. It is not effective against casters that stay close to their group because the damage gets spread around. It is not effective against pet classes for the same reason. It can also be interrupted before it reaches its full damage potential, and then there is a 15 second cooldown.

TheRat wrote:People stop and stand still all the time, you just have to be patient, like an assassin has to be patient to find someone solo to kill before plunging in to fight.

Sorry, but assassins do not have to be patient here. I see them initiate (and win) combat without using PA all the time. And PA is now easier to land than a Crit Shot is and it will do about the same damage + follow-up styles.

TheRat wrote:

jumper9 wrote:Bet you can't wait for volley to change to a 30 minute timer
I feel like I did playing my archer on live. Being beaten to death with the nerfbat. Balls to it, lets all roll assassins.

It is not a nerf to correct a bug. Crit shots only ever worked against stationary targets on live. With a sufficient bow spec and a very slow bow you should be able to do some serious damage with a crit shot.

People stop and stand still all the time, you just have to be patient, like an assassin has to be patient to find someone solo to kill before plunging in to fight.

No, its by no means the same, not even similar, cause archers have also to wait for single targets on top of that now they need them to stand still. "True" stealthers can just stand in the estimated travelpath of their victims (for PA for example), while an archer hardly can do it (i mean oc they can, but it wouldnt be very useful for archering, aye?!).

Archers also cant wait at same spots (hotspots like milewall, bridges and stuff) where assassins camp, since 1. there are most likely assissins around and 2. other peeps who get through these hotspots know that there could be assassins around, so they speed up and pass these hotspots afap.

However, what is right is that it is a bugfix, if one likes it or not.
Just wanted to say that there are still other bugs which need to be fixed, like :
1. low bow-dmg (i respecced to melee cause bow-dmg was ridiculously low for a class which is suposed to be ranged class, i respecced although i knew that meleespec wouldnt bring get me far with this class)

2. low pet-dmg (i really dont care about mobs making less dmg, since i can easily bring friends for pve + mobs arent known for their superior intelligence, BUT i do care about my pet being only a minor rupting tool in RvR. So what the heck, raise the damn mob-dmg)

3. Make Critshot a non-toggle action again. (Being forced to either wait for the arrow to hit, or wait for another shot with critshottimer to strike with normal bowdmg again is soooooo ****** up)

4. Damn, I know that there is another issue, but it just wont come to mind now


Thx though for fixing the charm insect lvl bug.

There is still anothr issues - missing ability:

Call of the hounds ..

Greetz
Nes

Maybe would you like to talk about camouflage recast time?

Lornur wrote:Maybe would you like to talk about camouflage recast time?

Yeah, that was it. thx.
Incorrect implementation of camouflage, for activating cooldowntimer on every combatrelated action.

It should only activate if the archerclass attacks an enemyplayer (or his pet) in RvR. It shouldnt activate when being attacked (and archer doesnt defend) by an enemy player, and it shouldnt activate when battling in PvE.

BTW, question about camouflage: Should camouflage work against naburite drinkers "see hidden"-ability in DF, it obviously doesn´t work aginst it!?


WOW!! That would be 5 (in letters F I V E) bugfixes, that actually wouldnt nerf the archerclasses!

I've tried to make the best of this but I can't. The Hunter is now unplayable for me. You took a gimped, bastardized, but still lovable class and you broke its back. Thanks.

From what i have seen until now, solving balancing issues with archer classes is not an issue of the staff neither of the community (see 1.65 OLD#RA & Archer thread). That would require custom changes. And thats not something the staffs likes to do. Altough there are already some custom changes in game:

- pets following stealther and breaking their stealth has been removed.
- animist pet limit
- some issues with charmspell from misntrel/menta.
- modified charges

My consequences are:

- Respec hunter back to MoS5. Find Some Group to gank any other stealther. And play this game as intended = RvR!
Maybe we can kill some asassins fun until they wine for changes too
- Play my RM more often^^

Greetz
Nes

didn't they actually remove the requirement that the target must be standing still in order for critshot to land some time ago? did I miss something? have they reimplemented it again?

Gemma wrote:

Lornur wrote:BTW, question about camouflage: Should camouflage work against naburite drinkers "see hidden"-ability in DF, it obviously doesn´t work aginst it!?

No. The see hidden ability these mobs have works that way on live too, camouflage is only a PvP ability. The purpose is to make it difficult to get over to the other realm's side solo.

As for your previous complaint, I played a ranger for many years. I play an SB here and I feel the playstyle is comparable (though both have strengths and weaknesses). Archers have an advantage against visible targets which assassins will never have. They can be hit from range and relative safety. An assassin must close to melee range and that can get him killed if he picks the wrong target or misses his PA. If an archer picks the wrong target, so long as he has selected an escape route which he knows will allow him to get away from a bad fight, he's in the clear and can stay out to fight again (most of the time). For the assassin it's just /release. No sensible assassin is going to get vanish - it's a waste of RP because one almost never gets away with it.

The assassin's advantage is, of course, higher melee damage and the possibility of inflicting a critical strike, similar to a crit shot. Some classes are harder to kill for an archer, some classes are harder to kill for an assassin.

Anyway, complaining about crit shot won't change how it was supposed to work. It only ever worked against stationary targets on live. The fact that it did not made Uthgard more 'custom' than live-like. If the damage is too low for ranged abilities, concentrate on that, not on the fact that you feel 'nerfed' by a true fix to your class.

Nerfing is done to improve balance. This change is intended to make Uthgard more authentic, compared to live.

TheRat wrote:As for your previous complaint, I played a ranger for many years. I play an SB here and I feel the playstyle is comparable (though both have strengths and weaknesses). Archers have an advantage against visible targets which assassins will never have. They can be hit from range and relative safety. An assassin must close to melee range and that can get him killed if he picks the wrong target or misses his PA. If an archer picks the wrong target, so long as he has seleced an escape route which he knows will allow him to get away from a bad fight, he's in the clear and can stay out to fight again (most of the time). For the assasin it's just /release. No sensible assasin is going to get vanish - it's a waste of RP because one almost never gets away with it.

I've seen assassins get away with using vanish lots of times. It will work against any character without MoS.

Being able to escape from a fight is not an advantage. Escaping does not earn you RP. It may preserve your ego, but in reality you're just wasting time. Death is not permanent, so having to /release is fine so long as you make RP in the process. There is no comparison in this between assassins and archers.

And please do not group real archers with Rangers. Most Rangers on Uthgard are not archers. They do not make their living with their bow. For them the bow is a toy they use to augment their melee ability, or for when they get rooted/snared. Most Rangers I know happily walk around mile gates with camo down just begging for a melee fight. Their bow damage is great--better than a Hunter's--but they don't need to use it to win.

The assasin's advantage is, of course, higher melee damage and the possibility of inflicting a critical strike, similar to a crit shot. Some classes are harder to kill for an archer, some classes are harder to kill for an assassin.

Give an example.

Anyway, complaining about crit shot won't change how it was supposed to work. It only ever worked against stationary targets on live. The fact that it did not made Uthgard more 'custom' than live-like. If the damage is too low for ranged abilities, concentrate on that, not on the fact that you feel 'nerfed' by a true fix to your class.

Nerfing is done to improve balance. This change is intended to make Uthgard more authentic, compared to live.

How is this a fix to my class? "Fix" implies that something was broken, or that my class was OP and needed to be balanced. Of course this is a nerf! This is not a live server. This is not 2002. Adhering to this ridiculous dogma of authenticity even if it means breaking an already gimped class is edit: silly.

This change will drive more players to roll melee spec Rangers while Scouts and Hunters become even more inactive.

Amadeth wrote::(

didn't they actually remove the requirement that the target must be standing still in order for critshot to land some time ago? did I miss something? have they reimplemented it again?

you´re right...they took the requirements out to compensate the too low bow damage..

now the requirements are back on and the bowdamage remains too low..

So, now i dare to go on thin ice too

Quote from the closed topic: Critshot bug schon wieder (critshot bug again) from the german bugsection

Nayru wrote:Es ist beim Fix einiges Schief gelaufen und ich arbeite schon den ganzen Tag daran. Ihr solltet vorsichtiger sein wenn ihr mit dem Finger herum zeigt. Das gilt insbesondere für dich, Musikus. Kannst du dir vorstellen dass auch Staffler nur Menschen sind und hin und wieder Fehler unterlaufen? Erst fragen, dann wie ein kleines Mädchen plärren. Wenn man keine Ahnung hat...

Morgen sieht die Critshotsituation wieder anders aus.

<Translation of quote>: There has gone something wrong while fixing and im working the whole day on this issue. You should be more cautious when pointing with ur finger around. That adresses especially YOU Musikus. Can you imagine that even staffmembers are human too, and that they makes errors once in a while as well? First questioning, then cry like a little girl. If one has no notion...

Tomorrow the whole critshotsituation will look a lot different again.<Translation end>

K, if u say so, but what about the whole archer situation?