Haldan wrote:Maybe you call it an unjustified change, but we call it indeed balancing

Uthgard guideline says: no ToA+ content; legendary weapons are ToA content.

Casters did by no means experience such a great advantage as for example style-proc classes or dual wield classes. Especially in 1vs1 scenarios these melee classes had huge benefits due to the usage of dual weapons offering a higher overall chance to proc off a debuff while classes like Reavers or Valewalkers threw out procs due to their usually equipped very fast weapons. Savages probably had the most fun, due to procs being able to proc of each hit (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) in addition to their self hasted very fast attack speed.

However the main reason for the removal of leg weapons is the fact that these weapons are ToA content.

And physical defense is NF content, which is not classic either. It is not balanced against anything currently on Uthgard. People roll up PD rangers and hunters and destroy tank classes. This is NOT how those classes were supposed to be played, in Classic OR ToA. You say 'we took them out because they're evil ToA content', but PD was balanced around the fact that they existed. Now that they do not, PD is VERY overpowered.

How can there be balance when a couple of classes can spend a few RP and almost never lose melee fights? Why not just remove PD from archer classes then and refund them their RPs, if there is so much objection to legendaries?

how can a pd5 class be unbalanced? pd5 melees are hunter, scout and ranger, they all are stealthers, with lower dmgtables. they all get purge and ip. and even though they have pd5, a simple dual-wield fulltank easily overdamages such an opponent. Ive fought several melee rangers on my axe-bersi and i easily overdmged em, even though they were pd5 and resistant to my dmgtype. I hit em for around 150 dmg mainhand and 40 dmg offhand, and they did same, with the only difference, that ive got, nearly double the ammount of HPs they do, lol!
It true, the moment such a ranger dumps purge, ip, rr5, several charges, hes quite OP, but well so am i if i charge+rr5+zerkmode.

It also shouldnt be a problem for any assassin to kill a pd5-archer, since they do indeed need to purge debuffs+dot, since theyll loose roughly 900 hps due to viper 3, and wont be able to hit hard, due to str/con debuff. But the same second they purge poisons, theyll get a stun and new poisons again, so it wouldnt matter much for an assassin to kill an archer.

The only problem here is, that me, as a fulltank, for example, loose around 60% hps fighting an archer, 90% if he dumps purge+ip, and i die if he dumps all and i dont have anything at all, instead of just shelling them, as they are shelled on live by fulltanks.

ps. the only unbalanced pd-5 class is the bonedancer, with his insta 5 sec 250 lifeleech+insta debuff.

Satz wrote:ps. the only unbalanced pd-5 class is the bonedancer, with his insta 5 sec 250 lifeleech

4 seconds.

Satz wrote:how can a pd5 class be unbalanced? pd5 melees are hunter, scout and ranger, they all are stealthers, with lower dmgtables. they all get purge and ip. and even though they have pd5, a simple dual-wield fulltank easily overdamages such an opponent. Ive fought several melee rangers on my axe-bersi and i easily overdmged em, even though they were pd5 and resistant to my dmgtype. I hit em for around 150 dmg mainhand and 40 dmg offhand, and they did same, with the only difference, that ive got, nearly double the ammount of HPs they do, lol!
It true, the moment such a ranger dumps purge, ip, rr5, several charges, hes quite OP, but well so am i if i charge+rr5+zerkmode.

It also shouldnt be a problem for any assassin to kill a pd5-archer, since they do indeed need to purge debuffs+dot, since theyll loose roughly 900 hps due to viper 3, and wont be able to hit hard, due to str/con debuff. But the same second they purge poisons, theyll get a stun and new poisons again, so it wouldnt matter much for an assassin to kill an archer.

The only problem here is, that me, as a fulltank, for example, loose around 60% hps fighting an archer, 90% if he dumps purge+ip, and i die if he dumps all and i dont have anything at all, instead of just shelling them, as they are shelled on live by fulltanks.

ps. the only unbalanced pd-5 class is the bonedancer, with his insta 5 sec 250 lifeleech+insta debuff.

And your Zerker is ? it is possible to lose vs every good fulltank, but you can win too (ranger vs fulltank). The hardest ones are parry spec mercs with fumble proc active.

dont teach me..

teach mytic..they wrote that patchnote..and the patchnote say it like i did.

Sonnenschein wrote:

Funkling wrote:Legendary weapons did exist on Uthgard but were removed because people whined about casters having charge debuffs on their staves.

Heloeeeee?
They have just been removed and now u ask for implementing them... I dont think the GM's will do this.

Heloeeeee?
I never asked for them to be implemented again.

Sonnenschein wrote:Skald (could debuff his mighty Spirit DD's)

Skald shouts to body damage.

Sonnenschein wrote:Hib Casters (Light = Heat)

Eldritch light nukes do cold damage.

Haldan wrote:Maybe you call it an unjustified change, but we call it indeed balancing

Uthgard guideline says: no ToA+ content; legendary weapons are ToA content.

And you forgot about the ToA+ realm abilities you had for the past several years ? :mrgreen:

Ahem, NF was before ToA. ^_________________________________^

Nymeros wrote:Ahem, NF was before ToA. ^_________________________________^

No... I played my Enchanter and other chars with artefacts in old emain (yes... it was live )

Nymeros wrote:Ahem, NF was before ToA. ^_________________________________^

Ahem, you're wrong.

ToA came in 1.66, NF in 1.70. However this discussion has become extremely offtopic.

I am not concerned with the procs on legendary weapons. If people feel they are overpowered, why not just do a compromise and customize them:


On the Uthgard version of "Legendary Weapons" they have ordinary procs and charges, but they have magical damage types. This fixes the problem of PD being too powerful (since no form of melee on the server can counter it) and the procs are classic style?

This way we don't have to throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak. We can keep the NF RAs (which are, by and large, far more balanced than OF RAs were).

If something similar were done to combat Viper 3, perhaps people would not complain so much about that either. Maybe make the Avoidance of Magic RA capable of lowering poison damage, or something? I don't imagine a ton of people would take AoM just to avoid the damage from ordinary poisons, but if there continues to be a scourge of Viper 3 assassins, many people would like to have a counter for this. Many players don't take AoM as an RA anyway, so people would still have to elect to spend the RP in it when there are a lot of things they might rather have (which is why I didn't suggest to add it to toughness, or other similar RAs which people frequently elect to get).

Those are excellent suggestions, but the problem (as I see it) is: The staff doesn't want to commit to making too many custom changes, for whatever their reasons are (probably the fear of making the server too custom, and getting it labeled as such, or whatever)

That's why they're saying OF RA'S will be implemented with no customization whatsoever, etc etc, catering to the shortsighted and overly nostalgic part of the playerbase who care more about the "CLASSIC" label then about day-to-day balance issues. IMHO, of course.

I also agree that subtle customization of existing RA's is the way to go, but it seems to me that currently all such suggestions fall on deaf ears.

Funkling wrote:Ahem, you're wrong.

But wouldn't it be fun if I wasn't?

Nymeros wrote:That's why they're saying OF RA'S will be implemented with no customization whatsoever, etc etc, catering to the shortsighted and overly nostalgic part of the playerbase who care more about the "CLASSIC" label then about day-to-day balance issues. IMHO, of course.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The old RA's were quite unbalanced, and a lot of people either feel nostalgically about them or are hoping to recapture the 'glory days' when they owned everything in sight, like pre-dragonfang nerf where infs were so unbalanced that rare were the fights they would lose. Where dodger 5 friars walked the Earth and nobody could kill them because they simply couldn't be hit. I.E., some want old RAs back because they only care to play one particular class in a certain way - which is rather selfish. For that type there will never be any room for discussion on balance. They enjoy the unbalanced classes and will play whatever is overpowered at the moment. There are people like this in every MMO.

Nayru wrote:ToA came in 1.66, NF in 1.70. However this discussion has become extremely offtopic.

You're right.