i have a 50 ranger and now i'm exping an hunter (liv 39).

With my ranger i never lost against an hunter, but it's melee specced.
Imho hunter can be a strongest hybrid because he can spec both in bow and spear.
Ranger must specialized in bow or melee an hybrid ranger imho isn't stronger like an hunter!

melee hunter vs melee ranger... id say its probably even...
melee hunter = melee ranger

Hunter is resistant to thrust(most rangers' dmgtype on uth).
Ranger wields 2 weapons and thus deals a bit more dmg.
Hunter has a pet that halves a rangers chance to evade.
Ranger wields 2 weaps again, and thus decreases hunters chance to evade.

Ranger has a low advantage because he has selfbuff dmgadd and selfbuff str in addition to self dex/qui which both of em have.

A scout probably kills a ranger who doesnt have purge up, but cant kill a hunter, cuz cant launch volley when a mob is attacking, or rather 7 seconds arent enough for a complete villey+pet absorbs some dmg aswell.

Small edit for blackcougar:

2nd attacker(pet) halves block, if only a small shield used, cuts parry and cuts evade.

Else an assassin could xp easily pulling 3-5 yellow mobs and killing em one after the other, because hed just evade everything anyway.

i think the point of view was not Hunter vs Ranger itself but
hunter vs other classes & ranger vs other classes, get a hunter vs a shadow or a ranger vs a sb for example...
anyways we lost the real point of view wich was about the balance and the Legendary Weapons, not about hunters and rangers, there are 2 damn pages of offtopic here :O

Wasnt this thread for legendary weapons, since it looks like its again stealth class discussion. And i think there are 1000000 of them here already.

little thrown in:

DW cuts evade
pet = adidtional attacker cuts parry.

at least thats why ive picked up thus far from the various threads about it.

Rangers and Hunters are far from equal.
Rangers get a high value base str, damage add, higher value af.
2 weapons = 2 lots of damage add, 2 lots of procs, Extra weapon for SC.
Blades melee rangers get a much better table of resists against all other stealther armour too.

Funkling wrote:Legendary weapons did exist on Uthgard but were removed because people whined about casters having charge debuffs on their staves.

Heloeeeee?
They have just been removed and now u ask for implementing them... I dont think the GM's will do this.

This community sometimes sucks so much cause people always see their own advantage if they suggest somethings and if they are implemented they whine cause they see their disadvantages then...

Of course Leg Weapons would be nice for Hunters/Rangers/Scouts cause Leather is vunerable for fire... but that wont balance...

It wont balance cause who gets the advantage?:
Reaver (Cold Debuff - Leviathan is Cold Dmg)
Skald (could debuff his mighty Spirit DD's)
Midgard Caster (Darkness = Cold)
Hib Casters (Light = Heat)
Ranger, Scout, Hunter (Leather vunerable to Heat - advantage against Infi, SB, NS)

I guess there are 1-2 more classes who could profid (dunno all types of damage atm) but in fact: Mid & Hib casters can debuff their own damage then - Albs cant - I dont see any balance here!

For all Hunter, Ranger & Scouts: Till your firedebuff Proc is activated - viper 3 allready killed u XD

Sonnenschein wrote:Skald (could debuff his mighty Spirit DD's)

skald has body DD !!!

Sonnenschein wrote:Of course Leg Weapons would be nice for Hunters/Rangers/Scouts cause Leather is vunerable for fire... but that wont balance...

It wont balance cause who gets the advantage?:
Reaver (Cold Debuff - Leviathan is Cold Dmg)
Skald (could debuff his mighty Spirit DD's)
Midgard Caster (Darkness = Cold)
Hib Casters (Light = Heat)
Ranger, Scout, Hunter (Leather vunerable to Heat - advantage against Infi, SB, NS)

I guess there are 1-2 more classes who could profid (dunno all types of damage atm) but in fact: Mid & Hib casters can debuff their own damage then - Albs cant - I dont see any balance here!

theurg can debuff his wind spec-DD (spirit)
wizzard can debuff either his bomb (cold), or his spec-DD (heat) and also he can debuff his earthbolt (matter)
well, silly to mentore but still possible...cleric can debuff his casting damagetype too (smiting = spirit)

just sorc and caba are left outside. they could only debuff their DoT´s. but hey..caba can deal with it...he mostly spet to get his own, far better, body debuff.

and you forgot the valewalker with his sidestyle-chain-bomb which is cold damage

Not to forget beserker and reaver who wouldn't even have to switch a weapon but just needed to press a button for a damageboost.

I said I dont know if I missed some classes etc. but in fact this sucks cause not every class gets an advantage out of it... even if many do

Nayru wrote:Not to forget beserker and reaver who wouldn't even have to switch a weapon but just needed to press a button for a damageboost.

Shadowblades could do the same. On uthgard they got the level 50 style proc, too
I realy like the skins of legendary weapons but the proc and the special damagetype should stay away from Uthgard. They wouldn't balance the rvr because not every class would get an advantage from them.

Heli wrote:

Nayru wrote:Not to forget beserker and reaver who wouldn't even have to switch a weapon but just needed to press a button for a damageboost.

Shadowblades could do the same. On uthgard they got the level 50 style proc, too
I realy like the skins of legendary weapons but the proc and the special damagetype should stay away from Uthgard. They wouldn't balance the rvr because not every class would get an advantage from them.

Truely say i dont get your point.

My friends eld i played recently (~1k hp fullbuffed + pd4) got hit by svg for 500 dmg (not to mention i got 800dmg hit by zerk but well...). On the other hand my dmg specced menta does 450 dd on 0% resists to the same svg. (~330dmg on normal 25% resists and ~210 dmg on 50% resists)

My question is: should i now request total svg/zerk nerf? Or do you still think casters are too op to get their leg staff debuff?
I dont get your (mostly GMs) idea to "balance" Uthgard. We're now heading to 1.65 patch so i want to quote nice patchnotes change. (1.69)

Legendary weapons made before 1.68 will now have reduced melee, spell, and archery damage bonuses. This change has been made to bring these items in line with the new guidelines established for Trials of Atlantis objects in Version 1.68. For more information, please visit http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1329.shtml.

It means in patch 1.65 leg weapons had even higher dmg than now and you still dont want to have them on Uthgard at all??

Maybe you call it balance. I call it totaly unjustified custom change.

Cespx

Maybe you call it an unjustified change, but we call it indeed balancing

Uthgard guideline says: no ToA+ content; legendary weapons are ToA content.

Casters did by no means experience such a great advantage as for example style-proc classes or dual wield classes. Especially in 1vs1 scenarios these melee classes had huge benefits due to the usage of dual weapons offering a higher overall chance to proc off a debuff while classes like Reavers or Valewalkers threw out procs due to their usually equipped very fast weapons. Savages probably had the most fun, due to procs being able to proc of each hit (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) in addition to their self hasted very fast attack speed.

However the main reason for the removal of leg weapons is the fact that these weapons are ToA content.

Musikus wrote:

Ati wrote:

Did u just compared a savage with a hunter? Sure after BS from savage u probably win most fights, but u cant compare the hunters dmg-output with the savages one.

I was pointing to STUN that rangers have, if u have enuf skill u can stun with hunter as well, it just needs abit practice.

the side-stun from rangers/nightshades is just a bug-implementation...
see the quote


here you got a full quote of the BM only change from 1.62 patch

Blademaster Changes

- The Blademaster Triple Wield special ability has been updated. It is now on a 7 minute re-use timer (it was previously set to 30 minutes). It now will stack properly with other damage adds - it will always increase damage no matter what other buffs or damage adds are currently affecting the Blademaster. Triple Wield also now makes Blademasters immune to critical melee damage.

- The Ice Storm -> Tempest -> Supernova chain has been modified for Blademasters only (i.e. Rangers and Nightshades are not affected by this). The damage for each has been increased, and Ice Storm now has a short stun component.

- Increased bleed damage for Celtic Dual combat styles Tempest and Twin Star. This is a Blademaster ONLY change - other classes that receive Celtic Dual will not see increased bleed effects on these styles.

but rangers AND nightshades using the too high BM-growth-rates on uthgard.
also infi using too high dual wield growth´s from merc
same goes for shadowblade and the leftaxe growth´s from berserker

ROFL. you didnt play live right? Only the last style of the chain has a different growth rate AND the stun isnt a bug implementation. But ok, you know it better...