Musikus wrote:blabla...utghard dont has all the archer-love patches.

A melee hunter is not an archer, it's melee.

You also think scouts are weak because you personally can't kill anything alone. Catch my drift ?

Anything you can possible do with a hunter , you can do better with ranger. Dual Wield Rangers go for Piercing, isnt it 50% dex ?
So what was the point .p ?

Except from kiting.^^

Musikus wrote:hunter only has evade 2 instead of evade 3 like scout and ranger.

Umm, Hunters have evade 3 too

It isnt shown on Catacombs charplaner though.
they got evade 3 with a patch between 1.65 and 1.8......... so im really looking forward to 1.65 limit

Ati wrote:

jrhadden wrote:Duel Wield offers an evade stun

Its actually L26 piercing style that offers after eveid stun.

And hunters BS stun is god, i play svg myself and BS stun is the way i play and in over 50% cases im abel to kill anyone 1v1, ofc it relies on quad hits

Did u just compared a savage with a hunter? Sure after BS from savage u probably win most fights, but u cant compare the hunters dmg-output with the savages one.

jrhadden wrote:Anything you can possible do with a hunter , you can do better with ranger.

What exactly is your point ?

I apologize, i really missed the point in "Well a high RR melee hunter could kill any tank 1on1."

Maybe its just that a high RR Ranger could do it too,
or maybe its even simplier anything high RR could do it...

Time to skip this interesting blog.

Greetz
Nes

As always the core of this thread has been masked by discussions about classes wich should be moved to its own thread.

Uthgard need to move to Old Ra's, as a step to get consistence as a classic server. The logic solution and the only fair for some ra's advantages ( like viper, PD, charge ) is to remove this new ra's created for a Daoc reality ( ToA and its % bonuses ) wich is way different from the one we living and playing.

I really cant understand why a so simple fact can generate so many points of view. Classic server = Old Ra's + OF. Anything different is a Daoc mod like the ones at Daoc Portal bottom.

Too bad Uthgard is a custom server.

In any case, stop caring so much about Classic, and start caring a little more about Balanced IMO. The OP is right in every aspect, I only disagree with him about the priority of such a fix.

jrhadden wrote:Maybe its just that a high RR Ranger could do it too,

And what's your point ?

You seem to be trying to say that hunters are bad off because rangers are slightly better killers, right ?

Did u just compared a savage with a hunter? Sure after BS from savage u probably win most fights, but u cant compare the hunters dmg-output with the savages one.

I was pointing to STUN that rangers have, if u have enuf skill u can stun with hunter as well, it just needs abit practice.

Ati wrote:

Did u just compared a savage with a hunter? Sure after BS from savage u probably win most fights, but u cant compare the hunters dmg-output with the savages one.

I was pointing to STUN that rangers have, if u have enuf skill u can stun with hunter as well, it just needs abit practice.

the side-stun from rangers/nightshades is just a bug-implementation...
see the quote


here you got a full quote of the BM only change from 1.62 patch

Blademaster Changes

- The Blademaster Triple Wield special ability has been updated. It is now on a 7 minute re-use timer (it was previously set to 30 minutes). It now will stack properly with other damage adds - it will always increase damage no matter what other buffs or damage adds are currently affecting the Blademaster. Triple Wield also now makes Blademasters immune to critical melee damage.

- The Ice Storm -> Tempest -> Supernova chain has been modified for Blademasters only (i.e. Rangers and Nightshades are not affected by this). The damage for each has been increased, and Ice Storm now has a short stun component.

- Increased bleed damage for Celtic Dual combat styles Tempest and Twin Star. This is a Blademaster ONLY change - other classes that receive Celtic Dual will not see increased bleed effects on these styles.

but rangers AND nightshades using the too high BM-growth-rates on uthgard.
also infi using too high dual wield growth´s from merc
same goes for shadowblade and the leftaxe growth´s from berserker

Ati wrote:

Did u just compared a savage with a hunter? Sure after BS from savage u probably win most fights, but u cant compare the hunters dmg-output with the savages one.

I was pointing to STUN that rangers have, if u have enuf skill u can stun with hunter as well, it just needs abit practice.

To be honest, i dont have any problems to bring on my BS followed up by 1. another BS + follow up style or 2. follow up + detaunt (to hopefully bring on after-evadestyle, blablabla) or 3. side-style-combatspeed-debuff (kind of a gamble, cause of: "u were strafing in combat blablabla", but i train to let the strafing be, and moving normally and get to side with stick...., but it takes practice ).

Although this sounds somewhat nice, its somewhat of a gamble many times, and not at all a big push to victory.

But hey, i actually dont know how it works with savage and BS, since i dont play one, so it was just a wild guess from my side too.

Nymeros wrote:Too bad Uthgard is a custom server.

In any case, stop caring so much about Classic, and start caring a little more about Balanced IMO. The OP is right in every aspect, I only disagree with him about the priority of such a fix.

One must weigh the difficulty of fixes like the one I suggested, and ones which everyone desires. This kind of change wouldn't even require changing any code - just adding items in the database to loot. The DoL server already has the code done for doing the crafting. Just need to make the items available on some mob (maybe the dragon, or something difficult in DF or something?) and put the recipes back on the crafting lists.

More difficult fixes, like revamping the entire RA system (which I understand is planned to go through and change back to OF RAs) is going to take a lot of time. Months, at least (and that's being optimistic).

Itemization is an easy change. Coding changes are what take the time and dev attention.

Rangers, hunters, scouts?? who cares about stealthwars? a purge 3 viper 3 assassin wins anyway, anything, at any situation.

OF-RAs would balance it towards the intendet way, but you, stealthers, are afraid of it, you do not want OF-Style because youll loose you favorite purge3, PD and viper, because you wont be able just twohit any unbuffed tank as an assassin or volley any solo caster as an archer. Youre mostlikely afraid of scouts slam and dragonfang, or is it nightshades viper? I actually never liked stealthers, so i didnt play em much. I dont know what was special about hunter and sb, but the 5 others are easily seen through.... dw for ranger, slam for hunter, 9sec dragonfang for infis, instaDD for nightshades and minstrel are a special story.

Classic server??? dont make me laugh....
Even live classic had cata-classes + sc, and you still want to call it classic?
Uthgard is never ever going to be classic because of reavers, vales, bds and svges. At least its gonna turn into a SI-imitation-server 1.65 as already told by admins.

The only problem that i see in this is the implementation of OF. I cant say that i didnt like OF, it rather was the situation there that i liked. NF is alot better suited for any server.

OF: Definete times to port(wait for RAs), only 1 way you can run through, and get farmed by group/zerg or by stealthers if youre solos on milegates. Do you remember running through milegates on OF without beeing hit on by 2-3 stealthers or an fg/zerg? i barely do. 3 separated, huge zones without a connection. you have to port to get anywhere, which means, loose additional time. If we made it, like it was on live with hib for zergvszerg, alb for 8vs8 and mid for solos, well have fgs roaming in alb and mid(looking for solos) and hibs gonna be empty or maybe, fg making 2-3 runs through hib then going alb and mid to look for duos and solos since there is no 8vs8 actiona and they wont log off w/o getting their rps, because its uthgard.

NF:
2,5 minutes downtime because of illness, but you can at least run through the zones already. Several undefined ways to run and meet other solos, stealthers, groups and zergs. A single zone, so that you can look in an other place if you dont find anything on your way through agramon, without porting or any other downtimes. Example: i start in crau as an ench. Run towards mid checking xp-spots, and meet noone, then i just make a round in odins and find something to kill, at least xpers. Since NF has a more defined landscape, you can, as solo, hide in trees, rivers and little hills from FGs easily, in OF with flat landscapes and a little trees this was much harder. You have several gates and bridges you can walk through deciding going through western amg or eastern, to get to alb, which, nowdays is a descision which decides on you beeing attacked by 1 to 10 stealthers or by none.

Custon is actually not as bad as you might think of, one should just take a closer look to things youd make custon.

As a part of customization i would probably go to huge lengths removing det from savage(the only SI class and the only hybrid with det on OF, not fair), leaving mos for stealthers, since they wouldnt able to do any stealthwars without mos, and for all the criests make purge 3 available, for usual OF-costs +50% which means:
purge 1 30 mins reuse no delay 10 pts
purge 2 20 mins reuse no delay 15 pts
purge 3 10 mins reuse no delay 20 pts

this way, its still kept classic but all the stealthwines can get a 10 minutes purge for 45 pts only. Since theyd loose pd and viper anyway it shouldnt be much of a problem to spec purge 3 this way^^.
Since fulltanks get purge for 4 pts already, it would be only 4, 6, 8 pts for them. Warriors, Heroes and especially Armsmen need some love!

It sounds not fair, but there should be drawn a line between tanks who arent killeable by anything other than casters, casters who arent killable by anything other than stealthers and stealthers, who arent killable by anything other than tanks. Ofcourse higher rr-difference and higher skilldifference between the ones who sit between the chair and monitor shouldnt be underestimated, too.

Edit:
I dont really care what the staffs gonna do anyway and if, its gonna last forever to make something. I just stated my opinion and the way i would do it to push the balance towards classic setups.
And ofcourse there gonna be players, who mostly play stealthers or 1337 svgs who gonna start flaming my post anyway, and thats nothing new to me.

Satz wrote:Rangers, hunters, scouts?? who cares about stealthwars? a purge 3 viper 3 assassin wins anyway, anything, at any situation.

Cares about stealthers

Btw you wrote a nice long post, but:

implement OF is a long way (OF-RA if and when(!) also a long long way) and i doubt the staff want to make for custom like this way, even if you think something is fair or not.

i remember farming people on my sb at amg in hib. and yea it really wasnt that fair... as far as savages yea ... i dunno some of u guys dont seem that bad but there are serveral who at not even that high of a rr are incredible in dmg dealing and are far past any other realm for melee dps. i dunno about removing det 5 thats just mean to say to a det tank:P but something should prolly be done for balancing out?