ForumAgramon RvR zone alternative: Old Frontiers Emain Macha.
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not even close.
<strong>FIX TEH PROFILE PAGE SO I CAN CHANGE MY SIG PLZ</strong>
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but same ****** ... if it is being camped
ok u`re right milegate is more annoying |
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No, it is not. |
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Much better to camp Agra bridges for an hour for 2 incs if u're lucky.
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First of all: im not against OF - I just think there is some things to think through before going in and changing something THAT big
id rather see OF come in 2 months with a good idea of how porting / move time etc is working in OF than it being implemented on the go as problems pop up second: no i didnt play stealther in OF i played a zerging skald (lol)
3rd: I hope OF gets implemented but we need to think of a few things first like a. what about breifine/(the other zone i cant remember name of lol) - will these be populated at all? if not - why then have them? b. how about DF controle? c. how about the relic keeps? d. how will/(or should we at all) balance the fact that albs/mids get port (and on what timer) to the main and populated rvr zone? e. how couldn't this be 100% similar to our current rvr zone if everyone just went to agra? (1 actice zone with 3 boarder zones for sieging/boredom/movement to active rvr - that afaik is 100% like old hib zone besides the fact that not everyone goes to agra they roam near the keeps for some reason) f. will this mean old RAs too + 1.65 patch? g. how about xp/craft/etc bonuses we currently get for taking and holding towers? h. how about items that will be unaccesable in OF? (mega items) there is A LOT of things to think of before we move into implementing OF(which i am FOR! - I just think we need to think this through besides the: OMG YES ITS SO SWEET AND NOSTALGIC) |
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Just to come back to this point of critic. Ok, I think it's fair to compare NF to OF, since they are eachothers possible alternatives and replacements. So, if you state that: "why not take a system that actually worked on live and go for it." You have to take this both ways: If you say what I quoted, it just makes it easy for me to reply: NF works on live, so why don't we just use it the way it is on live? It works there, so it works here, right? Well... clearly, it doesn't, not at all, I think you as a staffmember can definately agree with me here. In fact, there's been an ongoing customisation of NF, for months now, still not finding it's correct and acceptable status by almost everyone of the end-RvR community (there will always be a small portion of people that find a complaint in the slightest things, but this aside of course). However, you jump to the conclusion (without making the difference between OF and Emain Macha) that - because we, the players that are defending OF, but especially Emain (not specified in which specific supply system) against the argumentation for it to be too zerg-encouraging - the whole of OF and it's way of supplying players to Emain works, because it worked on live. We never said this would definately the case, in fact we are still discussing how we could make OF supply people to Emain the best possible way on the Uthgard server. We mainly defended Emain for being capable of the live capacities regarding zergs. Stating that the live supply system is thus also working, is not the same. The 2000 player server needed a decent delay on returning to the frontier, because there were that many players. Uthgard has about 5-600 players, having a current RvR population of max 200 players, which was in the day a LOT more than that. It worked on a server with ~2000 players, we never stated that the exact same supply setting would work as good as on live. We were defending it from an argument stating the completetly other side, claiming that it would be too zergy. Having timers as long as live on a server with Uthgards population however, might create the opposite of zergs, which we're all familiar with these days. Of course, zergbuilding is not fully map related, but also related to port timers and run times, but I think we can not state so easily that when it works on live, it works on Uthgard, for which as you can see, Agramon and NF is a perfect example. To go deeper into this matter, I believe that we should scale the time to reach the action to the size of the population. OF have never seen such a low population before, besides on Instant servers, where also ports were instants and as Utes says, causing some chaotic effects. This is why I believe that a porting system for Hibernia, aswell as Albion and Midgard, with a collective (reduced to 5 minutes) timer is in place. However, I am fully prepared and a supporter to test the implementation off the full livelike OF supply system, to see how well it works on Uthgard and to verify whether it indeed needs a customised timer and porting spot for Hibernia. For all we know, it might actually work. Allthough, I sincerely believe that Uthgard should not be afraid in any way to customise things for the benefit of server balance and to fit everything into the Uthgard concept and setting. If Uthgard does not as far as this, it will never see itself become a well-balanced, classic orientated form of DAoC which is meant to be a fun and entertaining game, done it should/could be done best, not done as it was on live. And I also believe that Uthgard has more than the capacity to become such a server, exceeding the quality of any live server setting ever created. (This goes for every aspect of the server, from (Old) RAs, to mob spawns, to old maps, to events, etc...) To end with, I do not think OF will have more work than NF, to the contrary even, because of the simple fact that Emain already has an awesome setting, whereas Agramon does not. In OF, modifying would be more a matter of supply timing and locating (which is easily tested by usage), than of map / zone modifying. In NF, there is still focus on the map / zone, without even including the supply system. Not to mention that the supply system might have to be edited for the better aswell. |
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Old emain is pretty ^^
I like playing in pretty places. Makes me giddy. |
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haha good 1. my suggestions havent been constructive? i've typed more stuff in this thread than anyone else here...have you been reading since page 1? since you claim noone read your suggestions, heres proof that i did... as for your suggestions as to what needs to change in OF. making things better would mean removing Agra and going back to OF emain/hib front as you have said...but the thing is, emain/hib front as is DOESNT need any changes...livelike OF was already very balanced, and for the last 3 pages people have argued the fact that hibs dont need a boost for their starting area. you suggested dun de behn...which is a stones throw away from DL...are hibs really that lazy that they need to start right next door to DL instead of at DL lol...hibs alrdy get instant return time to rvr action and run spd buff...everyone else has to wait for port... SOME SORT OF delayed ports is a MUST if emain is going to work correctly, maybe not the full delay of mythic live OF, but SOME DELAY...there HAS to be a punishment when you die...this isnt world of warcraft where getting killed has no meaning, and you just pop back instantly at your bind spot 20 feet away...emain isnt the size of agramon, you cant have people coming back instantly. first of all that would lead to zergs camping PK's due to the fact that there would be a constant instant stream of people...stealthers would camp pk's 99% of time again because the would be a constant stream...again defeating the whole purpose of having emain in the first place. why did daoc turn into a game that has 2000 people TOTAL on all its servers? why did UO turn into a game that has crap for players as well? they BOTH changed the sh*t out of the core game and in the end ruined their game to the point where NOONE plays. the simple idea of "if it aint broke dont fix it", is so true, its hilarious the dev's always felt like they need to constantly be changing things drastically to keep an ALREADY fun game FUN. instead of making changes to an already perfect RvR zone...why not tinker around with RA's, items, etc? see its good to tinker with MINOR things such as this, and these minor things do have a great impact on RvR and definitely have the ability to make things even more fun....you dont need to come up with some custom rvr map to make rvr fun... if you give the players a good nice end game rvr zone, there isnt going to be as much ****** about wanting changes/fixes 24/7...its sad that the RvR forums are filled with that instead of trash talk, fight compliments, videos, etc etc...not only will it keep players happy but it will buy devs PLENTY of time for them to come up with great ideas ALL while not having to worry about people being ****** off. you gotta run before you can walk...meaning you need to establish the ground plan...which is implementing basic hib front/emain. after RvR is working PERFECTLY there and everyone is happy, THEN the dev's start figuring out ideas of keep seiging in these zones, aswell as relics...but while doing this they have to keep in mind that they cant make any DRASTIC changes if the RvR is already working perfectly...they have to make changes that compliment! keeping things basic at first means getting changes to RvR much faster instead of years from now...of course something needs to be done about relics/seiging because that IS a part of DAoC...but that has to come in time, after the foundation is completed. uthgard needs more active players. due to the fact that it does take quite a while here to level to 50...you cant expect someone starting from level 1 to want to spend so much time if they are just going to be bored out of their mind at 50...if you cant even keep DAoC vets who know and love old school DAoC from going inactive or starting here, then there definitely is something wrong.
don't put words in my mouth blue, if you're gonna quote someone make sure you do it right. Last edited by wohast on May 21, 2009 00:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Sorry wohast, was a mistake.
It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..." |
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of course it should only be implemented once these times are tweaked...it's not that big of a challenge though. for example if everyone agrees that livelike port condions are wrong...reduce alb/mid port time by half, give hibs a run speed buff at their outpost when they are heading back to emain that has them about to enter emain around the same time as a port. this whole matter of hibs returning too slow ONLY applies to solo players that DONT have grp speed buff though hence why i believe it doesnt need to be modified...and i guess it applies to crappy pugs with no bard lol...running from DL to emain is NOT a problem at all for regular grps.
^^^
1. you obviously need breifine because thats going to be a location that hibs run through to get to emain...breifine also is an area where alb/mid grps are going to be roaming around looking for INC hib grps...resulting in grps running into eachother in this zone having 8v8 battles, again battles that ARENT at AMG. it spreads things out and adds less chance of adds for 8v8 fights. EXAMPLE - mid grp doesnt see any alb grps or hib grps in emain...mid grp decides to cruise by breifine...said mid grp bumps into alb grp that alrdy was looking for hibs there...boom 8v8 right there. i can go on for hours with examples, not only for 8v8ers but for stealthers aswell.
these zones also have the possibility of acting as places for relics, seiges, df control etc etc...something that does need to be figured out in time...but just another reason why they need to stay. you cant have emain/hib front being implemented fully functional with working relics/etc etc...hib OF is a solution to the RvR problem...after it is set up. the only crucial problem that does need to be solved and implemented with OF emain is DF CONTROL.
this has been answered many many many times...you can find your answer multiple times in pages 1-10.
f/g/h are good minor points, unfort im not familiar with any of that so i dont wanna talk out my ass about something i know very little about 
heres another video you can check out of some stealthers in emain...im not posting these videos for quality of fights etc...i am posting them so people who forgot or arent familiar with emain can see how its not some tiny lil zergest BG map that hibs dont participate in because of a walk... probably my favorite daoc video of all time - hib solo ranger in emain video - this video speaks for itself - note where 99% of fights take place...this video is pretty much a must see (be warned though, anyone who watches this video is gonna wanna roll a ranger...especially you nixian, if you watch this say good by to your nightshade lol, ur gonna roll a ranger for sure! lol): http://vnfiles.ign.com/camelot/videos/h ... ttrick.zip ^^^first minute...view of the run from outpost back to emain, hi2u tree spd. in a 43 minute video only 2 fights are not in emain lol. alb stealthers in emain video (im pretty sure these guys are german too haha!): http://files.filefront.com/Purple+Aveng ... einfo.html ^^^ look at that second fight...two stealthers running into two stealthers NOT at an milegate, but instead on a well known traveled path that mids take in emain... repost of mid 8 man group video in emain: http://files.filefront.com/Desolateavi/ ... einfo.html |
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already seen all quivnas ranger movies
he/she was the whole reason i rolled a ranger on live - she/he was so cool 
but you seem to forget the zone with druim cain? i can see why breifine can be active but not really druim cain |
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perhaps DF control could be established by controling only one keep, Cruachan. the keep would not be easy to take, and after a retake a timer of, say, 2-3 hours would be set until it can be reclaimed again by other realm.
the problem of relic stays. i'd really like to see those, however 
the whole rush of organizing and pulling off a relic raid really used to give me a hard on back in the days.. i'd also like to see and feel OF implemented, but it's a long road from what i can tell. there's a lot of work to be done and i sure wouldn't like to find myself in a dev's skin... i'd be content if a solution for NF can be found. @quivna vid woot, thanks, i've been looking for that video again for 2 months 
i also had my shot at rangers because of that one 
OT: Nix, i managed to hit 44 yesterday despite your pathethic attempts to suck a single RP out of me 
i'm gonna stick those blades of yours up your ass one day <strong>FIX TEH PROFILE PAGE SO I CAN CHANGE MY SIG PLZ</strong>
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On live servers sometmies Mid or Alb groups ran to "Ligen" to intercept Hib groups that were travelling to Emain, Nixian. This was possible due to Hibs always running the same route wich offered possible chances to intercept.
Last edited by Haldan on May 21, 2009 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Haldan, I think you are confusing DL and DC. DC was mainly used by "lowbies", as there were some nice exp spots nearby - leading to "griefers" going there once in a while (Minstrels in particular).
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DF controle: the one with most keeps?
theres plenty of them in OF hib zone Amadeth next time tell hitback to stop doing: a. stun + mes + run b. sos + mes + run maybe then id give u some slack and let you enter agra to xp
ps. next time take a horse - as u saw i dont camp where horses kick u off meaning free access to agra if u really wanted |
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