poplik wrote:purga had startingponints on bridges in agramon, it avoided the bridge chokepoints this way

Yes they had a similar setup comparable with our previous camps.

Blue wrote:Zarkor you forgot my argument about Agramon on Purga. So you can't just conclude that taking OF on Uthgard fixes everything. Agramon worked fine on Purga. Maybe the same reason is valid why OF works on most other (mostly INSTANT servers).

Mmh probably because I couldn't find your argument about Agramon on Purga in this thread .
>>EDIT!: Didn't notice your post, sorry!<<

What would be the reason that it worked on Uthgard that you would be able to compare it to why OF worked? I don't know the reason so I can hardly link it to OF.
If it is what poplik said, then I can't really say this is a viable solution on Uthgard because it would create a BG-like fast way to RvR, blocking the way to the keeps and towers and could in no way match this to why OF works on other servers. (mainly live servers back in the day, though mainly instant servers today)
OF has a slow way into the RvR zone, where Agramon would have an almost instant way into the zone. This OF way of getting there worked in the old days, but has been changed on most instant servers as far as I know. Not having it as fast as on the instant servers or as the camps on Agramon would fit Uthgard better then the near to instant port if you ask me since the action itself would be faster then the action in Agramon, making up for the slower ports.

I do know OF would be a better choice than the current implementation of Agramon, however I'm not saying it will fix everything. I am saying however is that it will fix the main end-RvR. And as we know that's not everything, but in my opinion a must to start working on things outside of end-RvR or secondary elements of end-RvR.

Blue wrote:

wheelchairbuff wrote:Fact: Every single RvR shard which has used OF Emain as the map, has had a population around 500. I think those numbers speak for themselves.

500? I cant remember sorry. There was only one shard that came near 500.
And dont forget all these shard were i50 shards. Your OF argument is very weak.

Purga had 200 players in Agramon due to the fact that everything was concentrated there and leveling was very fast with not much alternatives beside going to Agramon. Its not the zone. Its the setup.

I50, Eden, Genesis and Yggdrasil (ygg was 300+). I hope you are not ignorant to the fact that a lot of the players who played "those i50 shards" have come here since there isn't another option. How about enticing those to stay, and follow the theme of the server by implementing OF? Those are just 2 more reasons to the long list already mentioned.

Dont underestimate the fact that there was very less or no PvE to do and instant level 50 and on top of it no other alternatives beside the OF zone!

Blue wrote:Dont underestimate the fact that there was very less or no PvE to do and instant level 50 and on top of it no other alternatives beside the OF zone!

However, on Yggdrasil for instance you would still easily find incs on lowpeak hours aswell, with only 20 players in Emain, you would still find yourself a fair amount of action in a considerable timespan.

I don't see this possible on Uthgard.

Blue, a lot of those players have already come here, already have 50's, and are disappointed at the current state (oops i said a bad word).

All I'm saying is that there is a reason for those servers being so popular, and far from all of it has to do with the i50 part. I have a feeling that quite a few people started leveling alts to play in BG's when camps were removed - how about getting those guys into RvR?

Zarkor wrote:However, on Yggdrasil for instance you would still easily find incs on lowpeak hours aswell, with only 20 players in Emain, you would still find yourself a fair amount of action in a considerable timespan.

I don't see this possible on Uthgard.

Yes, because Yggdrasil has no other alternatives for these players. They have to go to that zone. They can't login into BG or DF or level twinks.

Imagine, wheres the problem if all players who want to play in non peak hours just meet at a certain point? Why wouldn't this work on Uthgard? Why just cant that spot exist in Agramon? I'm of the opinion that we don't need OF to get things working.

Zarkor wrote:

Blue wrote:Dont underestimate the fact that there was very less or no PvE to do and instant level 50 and on top of it no other alternatives beside the OF zone!

However, on Yggdrasil for instance you would still easily find incs on lowpeak hours aswell, with only 20 players in Emain, you would still find yourself a fair amount of action in a considerable timespan.

I don't see this possible on Uthgard.

Why don't you see ias a possibility? 20 people online in RvR is a very realistic Uthgard scenario.

This is exactly the type of situation we need. We need a map with a lot of regular paths to follow, making it easy to find other players. Agramon is a map where you can end up running circles around each other because of it's shape - no amount of porter introduction will change that, unless you physically introduce walls to force people in a certain direction :p[/b]

Blue wrote:

Zarkor wrote:However, on Yggdrasil for instance you would still easily find incs on lowpeak hours aswell, with only 20 players in Emain, you would still find yourself a fair amount of action in a considerable timespan.

I don't see this possible on Uthgard.

Yes, because Yggdrasil has no other alternatives for these players. They have to go to that zone. They can't login into BG or DF or level twinks.

Imagine, wheres the problem if all players who want to play in non peak hours just meet at a certain point? Why wouldn't this work on Uthgard? Why just cant that spot exist in Agramon? I'm of the opinion that we don't need OF to get things working.

OF has proven itself before, which is something I value more than introducing custom solutions to Agramon, and hoping that it works.

If none of the solutions mentioned in two threads with around one hundred posts are good enough for you, whats your proposal how to fix current pvp situation in frontiers? It would be awesome if we got some GM feedback.

Blue wrote:

Zarkor wrote:However, on Yggdrasil for instance you would still easily find incs on lowpeak hours aswell, with only 20 players in Emain, you would still find yourself a fair amount of action in a considerable timespan.

I don't see this possible on Uthgard.

Yes, because Yggdrasil has no other alternatives for these players. They have to go to that zone. They can't login into BG or DF or level twinks.

Imagine, wheres the problem if all players who want to play in non peak hours just meet at a certain point? Why wouldn't this work on Uthgard? Why just cant that spot exist in Agramon? I'm of the opinion that we don't need OF to get things working.

So I see, well besides that it would feel pretty unnatural to me and would smell like some crossrealming organisation, I guess that's an option. But I do feel that OF has a charismatic impact on the server and beyond, that you can't compare to Agramon.

I really think OF Emain would in fact be a better idea for this server in general, if not just because of the fact that so many people love playing there and that it actually provides a good RvR zone. (probably Agramon canbe a good RvR zone aswell, but doesnt have the same appearance and charisma OF has, which I think is something a classic server should not miss out on)

However, since you and the dev team put a hell of a lot of work in Agramon and NF and apparently aren't ready to give that up, I'm afraid the community will have to carry that burden (You can see for urself that OF is generally supported by the majority of the posters, don't get me wrong, this is far from the majority of the server, but I'd gladly take this to the test and have a poll out to see what the community really thinks, in fact, I wouldn't mind sending out the message to all realms for about a weak to come and vote if there is such a poll) or just find another server if they want to play in OF.

To sum up, my OF pros:

- One of the greatest RvR maps.
- Supported by many, not to mention attracting new players.
- Suits the classic concept better than Agramon ever will, will be adored by the truly classic players.
- Will create a new interest in end-RvR, keeping players here instead of wandering off.

Agramons pros:

- Has been the Dev's project for months/years.
- Has the option on becoming a good RvR map.
- NF sieging. (Not so fond of this though, sieging stands for zerging and hitting doors with timers in my DAoC dictionary)
- Fast ports (Which isn't seen as a good thing since it's BG-like as far as I know)

Nammoth wrote:If none of the solutions mentioned in two threads with around one hundred posts are good enough for you, whats your proposal how to fix current pvp situation in frontiers? It would be awesome if we got some GM feedback.

Blue wrote:a) We have complete old OF, old mainland patchfiles at hand. No problem.
b) To give a hint. We think about extending the porterlines nearly into enemy territory so there will be a large moving frontline and giving you ports into action. There is another idea that can help solos to show that they are there but I dont want to talk about details.

This is what I'm guessing ( b) ofc)

Blue wrote:Imagine, wheres the problem if all players who want to play in non peak hours just meet at a certain point? Why wouldn't this work on Uthgard? Why just cant that spot exist in Agramon? I'm of the opinion that we don't need OF to get things working.

well i remember one time a certain play posting a thread about a "solo" spot in agra - however that thread got moved/deleted ^^ (it was me making that post btw)

however why not just say: all meet at center of agra when rvr is at low peak?

or mid bridge or alb or hib bridges?

nixian wrote:however why not just say: all meet at center of agra when rvr is at low peak?

This would be the easiest solution. This is what I mean. Just find a way to establish such a spot. Player who think there is low action could just head to the center spot in Agramon and wait there, then meet others that think who same If that happens regulary this could work out in low pop hours to find enemies. But my guess is that you will be killed by FG's checking that spot.

Blue wrote:

nixian wrote:however why not just say: all meet at center of agra when rvr is at low peak?

This would be the easiest solution. This is what I mean. Just find a way to establish such a spot. Player who think there is low action could just head to the center spot in Agramon and wait there, then meet others that think who same If that happens regulary this could work out in low pop hours to find enemies. But my guess is that you will be killed by FG's checking that spot.

Might be the easiest, but far from the best as you said urself it would be hard to maintain the spot since FGs will be checking it aswell. At least in OF you can hide in or near the MGs .