Once in the RvR zone, RvR itself will be more lively, faster and generally more fun.

a) Of course it doesn't mean the whole server wants the change, however 90% of the RvR population does want a drastic change in the RvR system. How do I know this? Because I play regularly and read the forums aswell.
b) That might be the case, but that doesn't mean it is the case. I know of people on the forum that do not tend to think further than their own benefits or their specific class love/nerfs. However I'm not one of those and I try to propose changes that are generally accepted and approved by as many players as possible, guided of course by my own feelings and preferations.
c) I think that as an active RvR player, I do know what goes on in the RvR zone, even better. I can FEEL what goes on, together with everyone I play with. Numbers are not equal to gameplay.

If you're looking at one side of the medal, don't forget the other. I'm fully aware of the staffs attention to it's changes and the server in general, however when you state that there is a general improvement on the server, due to the fact that there's an increase in RvR population, doesnt mean that there is no problem with the gameplay those players are experiencing. I believe the problem lies not so much in primetime RvR, but especially in lowpeak RvR, which should not be totally torn apart due to the fact that primetime action is considered as OK.

Also, when you note an increase in RvR population, combined with a halving of the LWRPs I don't believe you can speak of an improvement. While the players increase, there should not be such a decrease in the general RP gain. Not because of the fact that RPs are halved, but because of the action halved. This is what many people see as a major issue. RvR is in fact too slow at the moment, reaching 7-8k RPs per hour must be somewhat the peak in primetime, 10k RPs per hour if you are rolling every grp you encounter. Before, 10K RPs per hour were average, or just above average, 20k RPs was possible with an extraordinary grp. Why? Because you were able to find enough incs in a reasonable amount of time. Nowadays, you just can't.

This is what I mean with the other side of the medal. I know you've said that RvR shouldn't be too fast, however that's where the timed ports and longer runs come in to play in OF to prevent that. However in exchange you will get faster RvR once you actually get into the actual RvR area. With the current system RvR is too slow in the wrong aspect. Inside the RvR area, action is way too slow, while getting there is fairly fast (besides when you lose a tower). By the way, before we misunderstand eachother, it's not about the amount of RPs, it's about the amount of fights.
I'm not fond fast RP farming (RPs x5 or similar bonusses), but I (and many others) do prefer fast RvR over slow RvR, since slow RvR just means you're wasting your time instead of having a blast fighting enemies. In the end, that's what RvR is all about to be honest, fighting enemies, and preferably as many and as much as possible. Having to run around for 10 minutes is not entertaining in no way whatsoever. I even believe that faster RvR while halving the RP rate, would make people enjoy RvRing more, than slower RvR while doubling the RP rate.

Here's my argumentation in a nutshell:
Agramon:
Road to RvR: fast
RvR itself: slow

Old Frontiers Emain:
Road to RvR: slow
RvR itself: fast

This is better because the road to RvR isn't really bothering people, it's a necessary evil. A high price for a high reward is a reasonable deal, so is Agramon, but in a less attractive way. Agramon has a low price for a low reward, which to be honest, isn't what people are going to stand in line for .
Fast way to low action instead of a slow way to high action, I'll go for the high action then, getting more benefit out of surviving a fight since the next fight (and fun) will be sooner. While in Agramon, the next fight will take long no matter what, winning or losing isn't really affecting it. Downtime in Agramon is there after every fight, while in Emain, it would only be there after losing a fight, which does indeed sounds more logical.

Zarkor, this is all just theory. Really. You cant predict how it plays out. The respawn ways for certain realms in OF are very different. So one side will complain about it.

If you already have fast ways to low action in Agra, then what happens when you add slow ways to our population. The only difference in OF would be PERHAPS a meeting point for everyone but this one can be done in Agramon too. The players will be the same.

Fact: Every single RvR shard which has used OF Emain as the map, has had a population around 500. I think those numbers speak for themselves.

i think every change of the actual rvr map is a good one, since it cant become more empty.

so i vote for pro!

my OF solution

hib zone only


if keeps are moveable

however - id rather see zones + agra improved tbh

wheelchairbuff wrote:Fact: Every single RvR shard which has used OF Emain as the map, has had a population around 500. I think those numbers speak for themselves.

500? I cant remember sorry. There was only one shard that came near 500.
And dont forget all these shard were i50 shards. Your OF argument is very weak.

Purga had 200 players in Agramon due to the fact that everything was concentrated there and leveling was very fast with not much alternatives beside going to Agramon. Its not the zone. Its the setup.

nixian wrote:my OF solution

hib zone only


if keeps are moveable

however - id rather see zones + agra improved tbh

Your "solution" as you call it, has no choke points, thus completely negating the arguments for changing to OF.

If you look at the map, however, Hibernia could be given a timed port similar to Alb/Mid to Dun Bolg/nGed (for the lazy people/smallmans), leaving the rest of Breifine mostly open to those who want 8v8 fights.

however the other option is having mids/albs rvr with hibs rerolling mid/albs cuz of a HUGE long run to action in emain zone

nixian wrote:however the other option is having mids/albs rvr with hibs rerolling mid/albs cuz of a HUGE long run to action in emain zone

On speed 5 the run takes 11/12 minutes, I timed it. Hence also the reason I suggested a port to Bolg/nGed in the post right above (if you read it).

Blue wrote:Zarkor, this is all just theory. Really. You cant predict how it plays out. The respawn ways for certain realms in OF are very different. So one side will complain about it.

If you already have fast ways to low action in Agra, then what happens when you add slow ways to our population. The only difference in OF would be PERHAPS a meeting point for everyone but this one can be done in Agramon too. The players will be the same.

Of course, besides the fact that action in Agramon is in fact too slow on Uthgard and fast in Emain in the live days and on any server that ever used OF Emain, this is all theory.

I rather have one realm complaining about spawn rates (which i frankly don't see happening that fast with a high action RvR zone) than all realms complaining about the RvR system.


That's my point, I'm not asking for a high price for a low reward, I'm asking for a higher price for a high reward. Why would I want slower ways to even slower action?
I want more lively action and wouldn't mind having slower runs to that.

Having PERHAPS a meeting point is not true. Emain has been used on all servers around the globe as main RvR zone. So, a lot of people will know the used routes and hotspots, the ones who don't will learn them in time. This will create an actual meeting point instead of a theoretical. Which I don't see happening in Agramon yet. However I'm always open for surprises ^^.

Not to mention that Emain would also be an effective measure to draw more people into the server and thus eventually RvR zone aswell as be a great addition to the classic feeling of the server.

wheelchairbuff wrote:

nixian wrote:however the other option is having mids/albs rvr with hibs rerolling mid/albs cuz of a HUGE long run to action in emain zone

On speed 5 the run takes 11/12 minutes, I timed it. Hence also the reason I suggested a port to Bolg/nGed in the post right above (if you read it).

i did

however afaik the setting in discussion is the full OF zone (which shouldnt give timed ports for hibs to those keeps as they should be raidable

Sieges are a wholly separate discussion, as there would have to be a place for the alb/mid relics as well.

As Zarkor mentioned earlier, "lets fix RvR first, and worry about the other stuff later".

EDIT: No, I don't think sieges are an important part of RvR, but that's not a discussion to have here :p

nixian wrote:

wheelchairbuff wrote:

nixian wrote:however the other option is having mids/albs rvr with hibs rerolling mid/albs cuz of a HUGE long run to action in emain zone

On speed 5 the run takes 11/12 minutes, I timed it. Hence also the reason I suggested a port to Bolg/nGed in the post right above (if you read it).

i did

however afaik the setting in discussion is the full OF zone (which shouldnt give timed ports for hibs to those keeps as they should be raidable

Heh that would make no sense at all to be honest. Giving the portal option for hibs, would actually be there to grant every realm similar route times to action instead of unnecessarily nerfing one realm.

Zarkor you forgot my argument about Agramon on Purga. So you can't just conclude that taking OF on Uthgard fixes everything. Agramon worked fine on Purga. Maybe the same reason is valid why OF works on most other (mostly INSTANT servers).

purga had startingponints on bridges in agramon, it avoided the bridge chokepoints this way