Ive noticed the sieging on uthgard is still not what it could be, and most of the time, when a grp gets wiped, they give up or take a boat to get back fast. But with the new changes to remove the boats to the enemy zones, Which by the way i think was a great idea to do, to remove them. I believe the sieging action will start to die down even more. Ive also noticed relic keep action isnt very often and without boats, may not even see them. So here is some ideas of myn , to maybe spice things up in that area. I suggest people make there own suggestions, on the subject and or on my ideas too.

1. Downgrade/remove the relic keeps. They are just too strong, to far out of the way for grps to do. It takes time to do them, and if they get wiped and the doors repaired, they will give up now. But if you ether remove them, and use the keeps before agramon, to hold the relics, and keep them normal keeps, it may increase there action. But i can see the problem with that, with it holding more then one relic, then getting siege and one grp carrying away 2-3 relics lol. So i think maybe downgrading the relic keeps to normal , claimable keeps would work better. One that you can not teleport to.

2. Increase the RP reward for taking towers to be worth its wild. The time and effort to take a tower and keeps , are much longer then killing a grp for a grp. One, they put them self at the disadantage when sieging, and the time they spend, is time spend not farming grps/solos. So they should be rewarded for it with more RPs and BP.

3. When a relic is stolen from a keep and is taken on the run back to home land, its not that intresting. With them running at high speeds + sprint, it doesnt take long and stopping them will be impossible. I think the person holding the relic, as the run back to there keep, should be forced to not have any speed bonuses, can not sprint, can not use a mount. Forcing the group to run with him. This will give other enemys the chance to intercept them and steal it from them. Also it would be funny to see it so that , the one with the relic can not be healed also. Which gives the group a very importent role in defending him. Also there should be a small RP reward for the one carrying the relic then, since hes putting his ass on the line lol.

4. Currenty when a tower/keep is undersiege or combat around it, there is a very long timer for repairing and if any part of the tower is under attack, like inner keep door, the outer door cant even be repaired behind there back. If this was possible, it would make stealthers have a role in sneaking up and repairing the outer doors, to close them in. If you think about it, there should be no reason you cant repair it, if its not being attack, after of course so much time after it was attacked.

5. Would be nice if there was a small RP reward for repairing. You have to spend wood and your time, you should get something out of it. Repairing a door for your realm, is a big part of defending too.

6. Im not sure how the warmap updates on uthgard, but i know its not instent, to update when something is under siege. But i think it should only update, if a player of that realm sees there tower being sieged, then it will show up on the warmap. This will make it possible for enemys to secrelty siege a tower, also would make sieging not so risky and make grps roam there towers/keeps time to time to check if they are ok.

7. I think there should be a bonus for owning an enemys tower. LIke lets say 2-3% RP bonus for every enemy tower you own. This would really encourage grps to siege towers/keeps, even if they got the relics. The bonus has to be high enough to be worth the time, but not too high to be OP for RP bonus.

8. Maybe a RP bonus, a small one for killing enemys around there keeps and maybe towers. Why, well those who choose to fight around or in a enemy keep/tower are at a disadvantage, so a RP bonus would encourge more of that. Remember RP is experence you get in RvR, and everyone knows its harder to kill at or around a keep of your enemys. And this bonus should only be given to those who kill an enemey of that keep. Like a Hib killing a Mid at or in a Mid keep/tower. But not a Hib killing a alb at or around a mid keep/tower.

Thats all i can come up with right now, if anyone else got some ideas, please post them. DAOC isnt just about grp vs grp. It did focus on grps, but grps to siege.

Thanks for your suggestions. I like your proposals.

Can agree with most of it except for #1. To be fair it's rather normal that normal groups can't just go take a relic. They're pretty substantial bonuses and shouldn't be just a playball that get tossed around daily. Unless that's what you're aiming for?

Well the harder it is to get, the higher the bonus it has to be, to get them to try and take such a hard keep. Currently i dont think the bonus is high enough to get them to want to take it that often. And we all know , we do not want the bonuses to go up, so the only other choice would be, is to make it a normal keep , that you cant teleport you. Some may think the relic being tossed around is bad, but to be tossed around, means more frequent sieging. Now i play a ranger and you know why id like that lol. Some classes cant get grps, and have to solo, and in that case, you better be a assasin or melee ranger. But if your a hybrid like me or bow ranger, More keep sieging = more rps. And its not that easy for us to kill a grp sieging, so dont worry about us getting to much RPs lol.

And some people like sieging and defending. Gives you a real medevil feel doesnt it.

9. Increase/add drops to mobs in agramon, to encourge people that want to farm mobs for gold, instead of them doing in there home lands. This will make even lvl 50s in agramon killing mobs. Which leaves more solos for solo players, then just lowbies that are xping. Id risk agramon for farming money, then going to the bog to farm frogs lol, if the mobs in agramon drops things i could sell, more often. I get like 10-15 gold most of the time off the frogs, to give you an idea, of what some of the best farming spots are like, in home lands.

Generally, some good points made here. I do have a few issues though.

I dont think it can be any easier to take a keep than it is through using trebs. Since trebs can be fired at clipping range on the target, that still leaves keep sieges pretty one sided if people want to man the treb for that long. I think its limited to 1 siege per door now at least...


In regard to the under siege update window; i think mythic implemented this to help people locate action as well as to notify the realm if someone's tower/keep is being attacked so that they can go help defend it. It was too often the case (in classic days) that a guild would claim a keep and no one would be around to notify players that it was under attack, and therefore the enemy would take the keep without any defense being made. I think in this particular case, mythic's rationale is a good one.

Eclipsed wrote:Ive noticed the sieging on uthgard is still not what it could be, and most of the time, when a grp gets wiped, they give up or take a boat to get back fast. But with the new changes to remove the boats to the enemy zones, Which by the way i think was a great idea to do, to remove them. I believe the sieging action will start to die down even more. Ive also noticed relic keep action isnt very often and without boats, may not even see them. So here is some ideas of myn , to maybe spice things up in that area. I suggest people make there own suggestions, on the subject and or on my ideas too.

1. Downgrade/remove the relic keeps. They are just too strong, to far out of the way for grps to do. It takes time to do them, and if they get wiped and the doors repaired, they will give up now. But if you ether remove them, and use the keeps before agramon, to hold the relics, and keep them normal keeps, it may increase there action. But i can see the problem with that, with it holding more then one relic, then getting siege and one grp carrying away 2-3 relics lol. So i think maybe downgrading the relic keeps to normal , claimable keeps would work better. One that you can not teleport to.

2. Increase the RP reward for taking towers to be worth its wild. The time and effort to take a tower and keeps , are much longer then killing a grp for a grp. One, they put them self at the disadantage when sieging, and the time they spend, is time spend not farming grps/solos. So they should be rewarded for it with more RPs and BP.

6. Im not sure how the warmap updates on uthgard, but i know its not instent, to update when something is under siege. But i think it should only update, if a player of that realm sees there tower being sieged, then it will show up on the warmap. This will make it possible for enemys to secrelty siege a tower, also would make sieging not so risky and make grps roam there towers/keeps time to time to check if they are ok.

7. I think there should be a bonus for owning an enemys tower. LIke lets say 2-3% RP bonus for every enemy tower you own. This would really encourage grps to siege towers/keeps, even if they got the relics. The bonus has to be high enough to be worth the time, but not too high to be OP for RP bonus.

8. Maybe a RP bonus, a small one for killing enemys around there keeps and maybe towers. Why, well those who choose to fight around or in a enemy keep/tower are at a disadvantage, so a RP bonus would encourge more of that. Remember RP is experence you get in RvR, and everyone knows its harder to kill at or around a keep of your enemys. And this bonus should only be given to those who kill an enemey of that keep. Like a Hib killing a Mid at or in a Mid keep/tower. But not a Hib killing a alb at or around a mid keep/tower.

Oh boy..

You do know putting more bonusses on towers will in fact destroy RvR, right?
By making them too attractive, they will become the main course of action in end-RvR, no matter whether there are enemies. I can imagine people taking guard missions and go on 'tower hunt' and well.. if they encounter incs that'll be some extra rps on the way. Basicly, that's how WAR's RvR was/is and to be honest, creating an environment where sieging is actually more rewarding than fights themselves (which it might aswell be, since you'll always find a tower, however incs are way harder to find) is just completely destroying RvR and the need for people to look for eachother. The PvP in RvR is where the real challenge / action lies. I would really hate to see more and more alternatives to that because some people will actually prefer getting there rps from easy sieging then challenging RvR, which just makes the RvR population split up even more.

What Uthgard needs to do right now is to make sure it make it's RvR concentrated as much as possible, especially at offpeak hours. Removing the boat routes to other realms is one thing. However the influence of one lost tower on the supply chain is still way to tiresome and demotivating, also Agramon is still a run-trough zone instead of an RvR zone.
By making towers more interesting, you will just make people have to run/ride more, which just destroys the desire to RvR for some, which is more than understandable.


Anyway, I've quoted which proposals I would rather not see here on Uthgard.

1: I agree with Maidrion, relics should be a hard encounter and should be well organised. I wouldn't like to see them being taken every day.

2: What I've stated above.

6: This will only negatively affect the feeling of Agramon to be as dead as a decomposed jellyfish, which sadly it already is sometimes.

7: There already are bonusses for holding enemy towers which I believe should not be increased.

8: Hmm, this might sound nice in theory, but in reality you will have to stay away as far as possible from a fight near a tower in the enemy's hands because the advantage they have is just ridiculous, making it pretty much suicide to actually try and kill them there.

I really believe sieging should be a secondary event, PvP should be encouraged as much as possible to make people come RvR again. Agramon is dying out to be honest, highest LWRP is 245k, with the rest being not higher than 170k. The action has decreased a lot and I really don't believe making siege more attractive will help this problem.

In fact, I believe installing OF (Emain) with reduced porting timers (~5 mins) would be a good measure. However, I'm willing to give Agramon some more time to see how it evolves.

well the thing with a trebs is a bug and should be reported in the bug area, not under suggestions. And the idea about the warmap was just an idea for realism. Currently i know on uthgard the warmap can take sometime before it says a tower is under attack. So that maybe good to just keep it like that. Only reason i suggested to change it, is to encourage grps to siege more, since they dont have to worry about the map giving away where they are, unless a realm mate sees it going on.

I dont agree with number 1 and the non healing of relic holder part :p

however rest sounds awesome

Putting the relics in the keeps closest to Agra is an intriguing idea. So what if that makes them easy to capture? More people attacking the relic keep more often means more people defending the relic keep. Since travel through Agra is the only practical means of getting to the keeps, more traffic means more opposing groups bumping into each other enroute.

Maybe instead of putting all of the relics in one keep put them in the three keeps closest to Agra? This would spread out the RvR a little and force both attackers and defenders to make some strategic choices.

The keeps should be normal like you suggested, Eclipsed. Maybe not so easy that 1 fg could ninja a relic in the middle of the night, but not so hard that it takes a full blown zerg to assault the keep.

Basically Agramon should be the centrifuge around which all RvR takes place. Bringing the Relics into the equation could help with this.

well one group should be able to take the relic, because people dont run around in big grps in the first place. If your in a grp , you can ether roam or orgenize more to siege a relic. And we know everyone would rather roam then orgienze something, very often. So if its possible for a grp to take it, then its more likely a grp will go for it, not just for the relic, but for the RP for taking a keep, and if there is a RP bonus for fighting around the keep of your enemy.

Shouldnt worry about late night grps sieging. There will allwes be someone around to defend, and if not, well thats there fault. Late night should still have keep sieging. Plus the relics are only worth 5% and 10% if you got both, its not that big of a deal. If you want to keep it, stay online and defend. Guards and a strong lord shouldnt stop a full grp from sieging a relic.

And the idea about not being able to heal the person holding the relic , was just an intresting suggestion. I didnt think it was that big of a deal, you dont see many grps taking on the zerg of enemys with the relic on the move anyway lol. My suggestions was to encourge them to attack them.

Sry but a Relic shouldn't get by a grp. DAMN its a Relic u have to work to get it. If its possible to steal it with a grp, it shouldnt gave a bonus only some exp/rps for takers.

I like some of the new features from ecli, but i miss the rps bonus for sucess keep defend. atm theres nothing what animate ppl to defend their keep, only if theres a Relic. In my Opinion isnt that the Real thing of RvR.

LG Jack

You mention realism as why flames should not appear on warmap unless a player has personally seen a siege - did you forget about guards being there to relay the message?

I agree with Zarkor, lets fix real RvR before focusing on pve'ing keeps.

wow, im sorry but i dont believe grp vs a grp is harder then a grp sieging a tower/keep, that is being defended. Thats why its not done very often, it takes time and if there is someone defending it, it can be a hassel and they dont make as much rps, as they would roaming for grps. And the bonuses im thinking, are just small ones. Heck a RP hungry grp, track down solos and xpers , just for that little bit of joicy RPs lol. I think a small bonus would encourage them to do something then what you see on every lame freeshard.

And yes a relic seems like such a great thing, that should be worked for, but there is a few problems. 1. The relic bonus isnt great enough to make a huge impact on your realm, to get people to fight over it. 2. Getting the relic from the strong keep its in, takes alot of time and its only reward is the relic, if you dont die, and if you do, you only need to run from your keep, threw agramon, threw enemy zones and back to it, but the door will be fully repair, so they give up. The relic needs to stay a small bonus like it is, so it doesnt effect the game play, but needs to be desirable enough to fight over it. So making it , a little easyer to get, maybe a little harder then a normal keep, along with a higher RP reward for sieging and killing the relic keep lord, would help.

Currently on uthgard, most people dont care about sieging, and even when there towers are under attack, i can broadcast about it and planty of time for them to get there and stop the grp, but they are busy with roaming around. Sometimes they will come, but not as often as they should. Only reason people take towers, is for DF, and not very often.

And as i said, plz make your own suggestions also, on what you think could help and why. My idea maybe not all that great to some of you, but at least i got some.

isn't the relic the option after a long fight with lot of people ... 2 zergs fought in agra, one give up, the other one go to the relic raid. and the rest of the enemies defend it.

it's how i see that, so it's normal that it's not happening so often. and i think inforce the zerging etc just to take relic would be a good choice