This is a beta so in theory observations of the beta testers and also the players and even staff of what they actually observe and the quality of play should be considered?

I told you so. And this isn't mean to be trolling or "toxic" but rather from someone who loves daoc.

1. There is no good reason why we cannot have a map, and yes one which shows you where you are. Sure in 1.65 they didn't have one but please explain to me how not having a map is better for the quality of play and the players? Consider that not all players are vets or even hardcore. Some like me are frequent but casual players who are kind of old and can't remember ******.

2. Also with the BGS, since there is a cap on the realm ranks and it is rather low, and since there is no xp or rp off, limited bg time is going to be available for each toon. So why not put a bind in there?

3. LFG-- Right now you made an /AS for everyone. This is hiding the problem of no LFG. The LFG tool is another work around for a problem that we do not need to have at all.

So look, put these changes in and you will have more people playing, more people having fun, and more people period. If you stick to your 1.65 lock step you will enjoy a brisk launch followed by more and more people and then eventually people will be like-- man I got to go mow my lawn-- you know watch my kids soccer game, the busy people will log off. Then all you will have is the hardcore players and eventually they will accomplish their goals and they too will be too busy.

Casual players and alts are the lifeblood of a server economy. With the real world financial situation a free quality game can attract actual new players to daoc. This will help the server maintain population and a vibrant economy.

Now. Think I'm wrong? Stupid? A troll? Should I go play WOW or fluff someone for the privilege of being able to play on a free server?

My time does matter and even if the server is free I have adult obligations. So the argument about "free" is not real argument. My time is valuable. And also, I would not be adverse to helping support the server financially with a monthly renewing donation so that free thing is not true. The server isn't free and it costs money to keep up and maintain.

My suggestion is to forget free and forget the lock step with the 1.65 mentality. There is no need to go beyond the three suggestions I made-- although you have already made customizations with the no level, reduced range on buffs, etc. But fine fine. Ultimately it had better be about the most fun and the best server or it won't be as good as it can be and you will lose casual players.

relvinian wrote:blablabla.

What about 1000 range ?

100% agree there should be a map with position and LFG channel atleast..

Seriously, how many people can be so butthurt over two simple features that will make life of casual players SO much easier while still being 99.9999% the same daoc experience as back in 1.65.

Do the vote again and you'll see the results this time.

relax dear concerned friends and use the search from time to time:

https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic ... 47&t=37218

read* ( not gona explain for the 10th time map situation )

PS. Havent seen a single complaint on forums about LFG since the /AS was created, not a single one in game. The /AS way of doing things works as intended. The RvR Alliance PvE or whatever community was thriving, as Realm wide alliances were created.

We recreate DAoC 1.65, not hard to understand. Map with dots or even quest markers on it alters gameplay and immersion and is not classic. This will not happen. A long time there was no map available and no player was hindered by that.

well no i don't want quest markers that's pushing it.

But as for the dot.. You talk as if it would change the 1.65 experience.. lol

Anyways i was just saying because I know for a fact there's a tons of people that never played daoc that will probably try it on release on Uthgard, and that little dot would have been a HUGE QOL for them.

Yeah back then, we didn't know better.

Blue wrote:We recreate DAoC 1.65, not hard to understand. Map with dots or even quest markers on it alters gameplay and immersion and is not classic. This will not happen. A long time there was no map available and no player was hindered by that.

Map with player location is more immersive than playing in windowed mode and tabbing to google daoc maps then using grid and /loc.

So when you say map will never happen do u mean because if you allow map command to the casual player the hardcore vets will get an advantage because they use a custom ui? Hardcore players can play upside down with their weiners using blindfolds, and they already have all advantages.

No map being available hindered everyone. No map available with 10 years of game experience gives an unfair advantage to any new player. When there was no map there were no vets, everyone was the same.

Look Blue, maybe you and I come from a different worldview when it comes to DAOC but we are all living in the real world. If you want more players and the players to have more fun, and also to help support this server, you need to think of casual players just a little bit.

Map working is an easy fix and it will help, not hurt the population. Some sort of weird work around and all the drama isn't going to help. Same with lfg and even with the bind in the BG. RR capped low as it is and at low level in the bg will encourage people to get out in the frontier.

I'm not going to respond to every post in this thread but I appreciate your response and I feel that my basic argument is sound and also supported by the real world and the fact that most of us have grown up since 1.65 and have real world obligations with our time.

Thanks for your response.

Blue wrote:We recreate DAoC 1.65, not hard to understand. Map with dots or even quest markers on it alters gameplay and immersion and is not classic. This will not happen. A long time there was no map available and no player was hindered by that.

Don't do this to yourself. Just ignore him like everyone else has.

zen1337 wrote:PS. Havent seen a single complaint on forums about LFG since the /AS was created, not a single one in game. The /AS way of doing things works as intended. The RvR Alliance PvE or whatever community was thriving, as Realm wide alliances were created.

Perhaps you have had your eyes shut the entire time or maybe you are being ignorant? /AS was not the answer. All we got with that was level 1+ global spam and /sh*tchat. The occasional LFG thrown in there. The way /LFG worked on Uth v1 was pretty much perfect for the job. Custom or not, it worked way better than what we have now.

relvinian wrote:This is a beta so in theory observations of the beta testers and also the players and even staff of what they actually observe and the quality of play should be considered?

I told you so. And this isn't mean to be trolling or "toxic" but rather from someone who loves daoc.

1. There is no good reason why we cannot have a map

That's as far as I got, i did skim through the rest a bit, but that's about as far as you can get with Relvinian, we all know he wants a map, he already got the explanation for it but... see quote.

I'm beginning to think he's one of those types of people that just enjoys hearing himself speak.

barto22 wrote:

zen1337 wrote:PS. Havent seen a single complaint on forums about LFG since the /AS was created, not a single one in game. The /AS way of doing things works as intended. The RvR Alliance PvE or whatever community was thriving, as Realm wide alliances were created.

Perhaps you have had your eyes shut the entire time or maybe you are being ignorant? /AS was not the answer. All we got with that was level 1+ global spam and /sh*tchat. The occasional LFG thrown in there. The way /LFG worked on Uth v1 was pretty much perfect for the job. Custom or not, it worked way better than what we have now.

It's a non-issue because you're just too stubborn to use the tools available to you, pretty much the same reason you got alliance chat in the first place and what a surprise, even THAT isn't good enough for ya.

Basically if you can agree with any one of Relvinian's pointers here, then you're doing something wrong.

When i first started daoc back in 2002, i had a folded paper copy of the realm map that came in the DAoC box. I would pull that map out any time i was trying to find where i got my ass lost, it was epic.

Too much carebear going on here by wanting a map that pings your every location, hell lets throw in a mob level guide over lay so you dont even have to think for yourself.

I loved not knowing where i was going or what was coming just over the hill, it was a true adventure. If you cant hack it, just google daoc map and have at it, just leave it up on second monitor.

Ultima Online was the same way, so damn epic of an adventure

having a map in game will not turn away players. having no map in game - will. period.

relvinian wrote: If you stick to your 1.65 lock step you will enjoy a brisk launch followed by more and more people and then eventually people will be like-- man I got to go mow my lawn-- you know watch my kids soccer game, the busy people will log off.

I am a casual player... i will be logging off to go mow the lawn, or spend time with my family regardless. I doubt the in-game map will be a determining factor on whether or not people will stick around. Those type of EZ mode gamers will end up choosing WOW or a newer game anyways...no reason to accommodate them and alter the DAOC experience.

OP says a lot of weird stuff.

I'm all for /xp/rp off though. Some of us like to spend time in BGs and see it as an alternative "end-game" instead of a temporary milestone. Here's why :

Have you noticed how many people debate over the RA system, determination, light tanks being ostracized in RvR groups, how some people are eternally LFG because of the gameplay choice they have made ?
Inside BGs, the meta is waaay more flexible and allows a "lighter minded" RvR. You find ennemies quicker, nobody really cares about group composition (as long as you have heals and speed, and still...). It's RvR for people who don't have too much time or who want to gimp themselves and have fun but who don't want to play LFG simulator or keep getting totally wrecked. Even for people who want to take a break from 50 RvR. You level up 24, or 34 or whatever, you get a cheap SC, and you run.

The main argument against that is always "making people able to stay in BGs forever will drain the lv50 RvR zones from its population. Now, should we force casual players to feed the min-maxing vets and to have a more demanding and less funny experience?

I hope that this feature can be discussed in the future...

This my 2 cents, as someone whom enjoys both optimized 8man and gimp roaming in BGs.

Thanks for reading!

Clanggedin wrote:

relvinian wrote: If you stick to your 1.65 lock step you will enjoy a brisk launch followed by more and more people and then eventually people will be like-- man I got to go mow my lawn-- you know watch my kids soccer game, the busy people will log off.

I am a casual player... i will be logging off to go mow the lawn, or spend time with my family regardless. I doubt the in-game map will be a determining factor on whether or not people will stick around. Those type of EZ mode gamers will end up choosing WOW or a newer game anyways...no reason to accommodate them and alter the DAOC experience.

All this means go play wow. How original.