Armsman Race Choice

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Jun 07, 2017 12:21

Briton 8qui 10 str 5 dex 11 con total is 70/71/65/68 more defense than highlander
Highlander 10 con or 10 str 15 qui 80/70/50/65 best WS (slash), worst defenses
Saracen 10 str 10 con 10 dex 60/60/90/60 best WS for thrust, good defenses
Inconnu 10 str 10 con 10 dex 60/70/80/50 tade 10 qui for 10 con, fairly similar to saracen.
Avalonian 15 str 10qui 60/45/60/80 the opposite of Inconnu max attackspeed instead of health

Briton is strong overall, should be slash.
Highlander is the best for big Hits
Saracen is good for thrust snare
Inconnu advantage is its size with fairly big Hits
Avalonian is the best for polearm snares.
Last edited by Requin on Apr 11, 2020 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Requin
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Postby Requin » Jun 07, 2017 13:30

Hit stunned targets, or casters, or healers... since when do you attack chars with evade or shield as armsman.
If you do snare characters with evade don't hit them from the front.
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Requin
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Postby Requin » Jun 07, 2017 15:19

I might be stupid but you said "evaded" are you talking about chance to miss? chance to miss depends on equipment not on WS/AF, so it is irrelevant to race & stats choices. Of course if you hit more often you have more chances to miss, however you have more chances to land your snare:
6 speed at 85% hit chance vs 3 speed at 85% chance
85% chance to land vs 92.75% chance
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Hasbulat
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Postby Hasbulat » Feb 05, 2018 19:23

Requin wrote:Briton 8qui 10 str 5 dex 11 con total is 70/71/65/68 more defense than highlander
Highlander 10 con or 10 str 15 qui 80/70/50/65 best WS (slash), worst defenses
Saracen 10 str 10 con 10 dex 60/60/95/60 best WS for thrust, good defenses
Inconnu 10 str 10 con 10 dex 60/70/80/50 tade 10 qui for 10 con, fairly similar to saracen.
Avalonian 15 str 10qui 60/45/60/80 the opposite of Inconnu max attackspeed instead of health

Briton is strong overall, should be slash.
Highlander is the best for big Hits
Saracen is good for thrust snare
Inconnu advantage is its size with fairly big Hits
Avalonian is the best for polearm snares.


Sry, but this analytics's are completely wrong.
The most important value as a melee is the weapon ability. Thees is your chance to hit an enemy , to make damage, to go through defence of the enemy and wa is importiert to defend yourself. Yes, your chance to block, to parry and etc, and chance to miss is depend on both WA-Values - yours one and the enemeies one.

Weapon Ability WA is function of you damage stat. The Highest WA is to be riched with str. Slash, Crush, Polearm and 2H haven stk als a stat. Even if Pole and 2H are thrust, they WA and damage are depend on strangth.

So the Highlander is the best choice. Or even only the choice!

An Armsman gets most HP points for a point of Constitution. The highest one has a Highlander.

So the Highlander is the best choice. Or even only the choice!

Block, Parry are dex depended, but they are capped in RvR. And even a highländer is able to overhit thgis cap, even with no starting points in dex and 0 or about 10-20 points in template.

So the Highlander is the best choice. Or even only the choice!

For each weapon, tactics and proposals.

Only as a blockmoster for PvE wuold be nice a saracen as a thust/shield monster.

Breton, avalonian or an inconnu are to be choosed only for roleplay proposal, but they are far from optimum.
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Celteen
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Postby Celteen » Feb 05, 2018 19:55

If you want to roll fotm go saracen for more block, there is no cap vs e.g. 2 attackers, dont worry.
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joga
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Postby joga » Apr 17, 2018 00:39

The only downside of chosing highlander being the skirt/kilt looking rather silly over a plate armor imo...

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Apr 17, 2018 15:03

[quote="Hasbulat"} [...] [/quote]

You suggest that Highlander is the only choice, because higher WS is the only thing you should worry about as an armsman, and to a degree higher constit.

The difference between highlander and avalonian is 25 strength.
Let us say your strength as highlander is 300 at lvl 50.
The avalonian would have 275.
So WS(high)=((300-50)*2.2+base)/100=550+base
WS(ava)=((275-50)*2.2*base)/100=495+base
The difference is 2.2*stats or here 55 points in WS. Which is equivalent to 3 levels of AF (if opponent has 100% quality and condition armor). Which means that having 55 more WS than somebody is equivalent to the enemy having armor factor of lvl 48 instead of 51 or AF 96 instead of AF 102 per piece of armor, or having AF102 armor at 95% quality such as the ROG lvl 51 drops.
It is a difference of between 14% and 8% in the damage multiplier, which is one of 6 variables. so if you did 250 damage to a target with a highlander, the avalaonian would have done around 237dmg, thats around 5.4% less damage per hit not in DPS. The difference is quickness is 20, which is about 2% attack speed.

So highlander attacks harder around 5% more damage per hit, but slower around 2% slower.
So in DPS thats around a gain of 2.5%-3% more DPS than avalonian, which could be overcome with higher Proc Per Minute for Avalonian.

There is a difference of damage between Albion races, but it is slim.

For the chances to bypass defenses:
Defenses are arc block/parry and arc evade and 360 evade, not bubble, not pulsing bubble, not miss, not fumble.
3 defenses which WS has no impact on if you hit a target outside of the frontal arc of defenses.
4 defenses which WS has no impact on if you hit a target that is stunned or mezzed.

The difference between kobold and troll (80 vs 35 dex in block rating is around 3%) so what would be the difference to bypass defenses from 70 to 45 strength? around 2% maybe.

Overall the difference is not so great between the races in Albion.
I wouldn't say that only highlander is viable.
35 constit is equivalent to 140 hp for armsman.

IMO all classes are viable for armsman, the difference is slim, Highlander has the highest potential for max damage and highest chance to penetrate defenses and highest hitpoints, but we are talking about differences of around 2% to 5%, on 50 hits the avalonian might miss 1 more hit than a highlander, but might have hit 1 more time than a highlander, might have done 5% less damage per hit, but might have proced his weapon 4 times instead of twice.

Crit more often for less versus Crit for more less often.
Proc more often vs Proc less often.
Miss more often and hit more often vs hit less often and miss less often.

You can build your character how you want in Albion as long as it is optimized and you know what you are supposed to be doing in the fight. Choosing the wrong target in the fight and losing 1 second is worse than the difference between highlander and avalonian.

The advantage of Inconnu is its size which can be more of an advantage that all of the above.

Pick the race that suits you the best. Don't think Highlander is the only right choice.
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pweet
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Postby pweet » Apr 17, 2018 15:08

for def penetration stats are important, for dmg not so much. how important? no idea
thats what i heared. so you will penetrate more often the higher ur str is with your pole and the higher ur dex is with ur shield.

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Postby Ownnyn » Apr 17, 2018 17:49

Requin wrote:[quote="Hasbulat"} [...]


You suggest that Highlander is the only choice, because higher WS is the only thing you should worry about as an armsman, and to a degree higher constit.

The difference between highlander and avalonian is 25 strength.
Let us say your strength as highlander is 300 at lvl 50.
The avalonian would have 275.
So WS(high)=((300-50)*2.2+base)/100=550+base
WS(ava)=((275-50)*2.2*base)/100=495+base
The difference is 2.2*stats or here 55 points in WS. Which is equivalent to 3 levels of AF (if opponent has 100% quality and condition armor). Which means that having 55 more WS than somebody is equivalent to the enemy having armor factor of lvl 48 instead of 51 or AF 96 instead of AF 102 per piece of armor, or having AF102 armor at 95% quality such as the ROG lvl 51 drops.
It is a difference of between 14% and 8% in the damage multiplier, which is one of 6 variables. so if you did 250 damage to a target with a highlander, the avalaonian would have done around 237dmg, thats around 5.4% less damage per hit not in DPS. The difference is quickness is 20, which is about 2% attack speed.

So highlander attacks harder around 5% more damage per hit, but slower around 2% slower.
So in DPS thats around a gain of 2.5%-3% more DPS than avalonian, which could be overcome with higher Proc Per Minute for Avalonian.

There is a difference of damage between Albion races, but it is slim.

For the chances to bypass defenses:
Defenses are arc block/parry and arc evade and 360 evade, not bubble, not pulsing bubble, not miss, not fumble.
3 defenses which WS has no impact on if you hit a target outside of the frontal arc of defenses.
4 defenses which WS has no impact on if you hit a target that is stunned or mezzed.

The difference between kobold and troll (80 vs 35 dex in block rating is around 3%) so what would be the difference to bypass defenses from 70 to 45 strength? around 2% maybe.

Overall the difference is not so great between the races in Albion.
I wouldn't say that only highlander is viable.
35 constit is equivalent to 140 hp for armsman.

IMO all classes are viable for armsman, the difference is slim, Highlander has the highest potential for max damage and highest chance to penetrate defenses and highest hitpoints, but we are talking about differences of around 2% to 5%, on 50 hits the avalonian might miss 1 more hit than a highlander, but might have hit 1 more time than a highlander, might have done 5% less damage per hit, but might have proced his weapon 4 times instead of twice.

Crit more often for less versus Crit for more less often.
Proc more often vs Proc less often.
Miss more often and hit more often vs hit less often and miss less often.

You can build your character how you want in Albion as long as it is optimized and you know what you are supposed to be doing in the fight. Choosing the wrong target in the fight and losing 1 second is worse than the difference between highlander and avalonian.

The advantage of Inconnu is its size which can be more of an advantage that all of the above.

Pick the race that suits you the best. Don't think Highlander is the only right choice.[/quote]Correct me if im wrong, but on uthgard +quickness lowers damage. You light hit faster, but for less dmg, and therefor equal damage over time.

I also remember a coversation with Blue stating style damage is also effected by quickness.

Its why alot of armsman build 0 quick templates. So that each hit is as high as possible. I had a few conversations with Grevard about this.

He ran all 3 damage types, full polearms and like 35ish in all thrust/slash/crush. 0 shield.

He claimed to hit for over 750. If true, 5-10% is alot (37-75). It could mean the diffetence between 2 shotting someone and 3 shotting...or them getting that heal.

On a train, 2x750=1500 damage. A potential 1 shot. 2x675=1350, player probably survives that round.

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Apr 18, 2018 14:16

Ownnyn wrote:
I also remember a coversation with Blue stating style damage is also effected by quickness.

Its why alot of armsman build 0 quick templates. So that each hit is as high as possible. I had a few conversations with Grevard about this.

He ran all 3 damage types, full polearms and like 35ish in all thrust/slash/crush. 0 shield.

He claimed to hit for over 750. If true, 5-10% is alot (37-75). It could mean the diffetence between 2 shotting someone and 3 shotting...or them getting that heal.

On a train, 2x750=1500 damage. A potential 1 shot. 2x675=1350, player probably survives that round.

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Yes quickness negatively affects style damage, because style damage is based on your attack speed. However, unstyled-damage is boosted by quickness since it is based on weapon DPS.
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Postby Ownnyn » Apr 18, 2018 14:53

Sorry im on my phone and have issues copy paste, but heres a quote from blue

"That definitely has to be investigated as it affects unstyled damage from melee and archery shots. I thought we got it right already but I see that we use Quickness again in unstyled damage calculation. Thats a game changer."

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Postby Ownnyn » Apr 18, 2018 15:03

Now i dont know if its been changed since, but the way it worked on live is not the way it was working here.

Quickness on live affects style dmg.

Same dps, but lower dmg per hit with more hits per time frame

On here, quickness affects both style and base damage

Thus dps is the same regardless of quickness.

Some players chose to use 0 quick templates so that they can max damage in 1 swing.

The idea behind it is that you exceed the dmg versus hp remaining on a target. Ie if 2 armsmen can output 1500 dmg in one swing on a target that has 1490 hp, you insta kill the target.

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pweet
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Postby pweet » Apr 18, 2018 15:28

It works on uth the same way as it does on live.there is no difference.
Quickness lowers your style DMG due to faster swing speed.
Base DMG is constant, independent of quickness hence it increases due to higher Swingspeed with more quickness.
The net result is an increase in DPS.

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Postby Spivo » Apr 18, 2018 15:35

For a class that wants to slam people, and land styles, being able to swing fast enough to get through PBT sounds like a positive.

0 quickness with massive style damage sounds great and those large hits looks awesome, but reality is that you'll be useless in fights if 50% of your attacks are blocked by pbt.
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Postby Ownnyn » Apr 18, 2018 16:06

pweet wrote:It works on uth the same way as it does on live.there is no difference.
Quickness lowers your style DMG due to faster swing speed.
Base DMG is constant, independent of quickness hence it increases due to higher Swingspeed with more quickness.
The net result is an increase in DPS.
I can only go off statements from staff. Blue has commented on this and said the base damage IS also impacted by quickness. If this has changed, i have not seen anything on it.

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