fremster wrote:The majority of people moaning for change are the ones not even playing.
You can literally get level 40 in several hours play. 40-50 takes a bit longer, but still it is a matter of hours and days, not weeks.

When is the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. When is the 2nd best time? now. The same applies to daoc and uthgard.

You are right about whiners but xp is a real problem here. If you start as new player, you have no PL groups which will bring you up to lvl 40 or higher. That and access to a friendly, non toxic community as lvl 50 toon decide whether players stay on server.

Nakja wrote:

fremster wrote:The majority of people moaning for change are the ones not even playing.
You can literally get level 40 in several hours play. 40-50 takes a bit longer, but still it is a matter of hours and days, not weeks.

When is the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. When is the 2nd best time? now. The same applies to daoc and uthgard.

You are right about whiners but xp is a real problem here. If you start as new player, you have no PL groups which will bring you up to lvl 40 or higher. That and access to a friendly, non toxic community as lvl 50 toon decide whether players stay on server.

I play all 3 realms from time to time, due to collecting data for the bestiary, but I have yet to experience unfriendly and toxic players. I guess it depends how you define it and approach people. Everyone will properly seem rude if you roll up in a lvl 1 and ask for guild membership and pl. But I only meet friendly people and if I see lowlevel players I give them 50g.

madskaizer wrote:

Nakja wrote:

fremster wrote:The majority of people moaning for change are the ones not even playing.
You can literally get level 40 in several hours play. 40-50 takes a bit longer, but still it is a matter of hours and days, not weeks.

When is the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. When is the 2nd best time? now. The same applies to daoc and uthgard.

You are right about whiners but xp is a real problem here. If you start as new player, you have no PL groups which will bring you up to lvl 40 or higher. That and access to a friendly, non toxic community as lvl 50 toon decide whether players stay on server.

I play all 3 realms from time to time, due to collecting data for the bestiary, but I have yet to experience unfriendly and toxic players. I guess it depends how you define it and approach people. Everyone will properly seem rude if you roll up in a lvl 1 and ask for guild membership and pl. But I only meet friendly people and if I see lowlevel players I give them 50g.

He was reffering to non-toxic community when you reach 50. People to group you for RvR, help getting templated etc...

Spivo wrote:

madskaizer wrote:
I play all 3 realms from time to time, due to collecting data for the bestiary, but I have yet to experience unfriendly and toxic players. I guess it depends how you define it and approach people. Everyone will properly seem rude if you roll up in a lvl 1 and ask for guild membership and pl. But I only meet friendly people and if I see lowlevel players I give them 50g.

He was reffering to non-toxic community when you reach 50. People to group you for RvR, help getting templated etc...

I, respectively, disagree but you are welcome to challenge me on it. I have also played on each realm frequently in the last 3 years and can attest that in each realm there are very friendly and helpful players, and that are very inclusive when it comes to power leveling, normal group leveling, crafting, and RvR/keeps. Nearly all players on each realm are in a single alliance with few exceptions. I would only concede that this may vary from Timezone to Timezone as clearly there are more players on during the EU primetime than in NA primetime, in which case it's inaccurate to say there aren't a non-toxic community than it is to say there isn't much of a community in general. (We need more NA players in general)

Antiks wrote:

Spivo wrote:

madskaizer wrote:
I play all 3 realms from time to time, due to collecting data for the bestiary, but I have yet to experience unfriendly and toxic players. I guess it depends how you define it and approach people. Everyone will properly seem rude if you roll up in a lvl 1 and ask for guild membership and pl. But I only meet friendly people and if I see lowlevel players I give them 50g.

He was reffering to non-toxic community when you reach 50. People to group you for RvR, help getting templated etc...

I, respectively, disagree but you are welcome to challenge me on it. I have also played on each realm frequently in the last 3 years and can attest that in each realm there are very friendly and helpful players, and that are very inclusive when it comes to power leveling, normal group leveling, crafting, and RvR/keeps. Nearly all players on each realm are in a single alliance with few exceptions. I would only concede that this may vary from Timezone to Timezone as clearly there are more players on during the EU primetime than in NA primetime, in which case it's inaccurate to say there aren't a non-toxic community than it is to say there isn't much of a community in general. (We need more NA players in general)

I never made the claim, I just tried to help him understand.

But I have encountered the unfriendly bunch, before most left, and I can see why they could make people leave the server.
Settings and patches can't make anyone stay on an unfriendly server, but friendly people can make people suffer through pretty bad stuff.

Just my opinion though, but to me it's DaoC players that ruins or make great servers, not if Devs tweak this and that.

Spivo wrote:
I never made the claim, I just tried to help him understand.

But I have encountered the unfriendly bunch, before most left, and I can see why they could make people leave the server.
Settings and patches can't make anyone stay on an unfriendly server, but friendly people can make people suffer through pretty bad stuff.

Just my opinion though, but to me it's DaoC players that ruins or make great servers, not if Devs tweak this and that.

I completely agree. I have made, in a past comment on another thread, the assertion that it's not the server its the players 100%, and I have not been alone in conveying that sentiment.

Spivo wrote:Just my opinion though, but to me it's DaoC players that ruins or make great servers, not if Devs tweak this and that.

sign.

I think people keep asking for the Devs to do something because Uthgard is a particularly solid, stable server. It's well done for what it aims to do; it's just that no one cares about those aims. It's just kind of bizarre to be like, "There was this one moment in the history of DAoC when everything was perfect, and we just want to fossilize that landscape for people to keep playing on," because there absolutely has never been a perfect moment in DAoC history. The game has been better or worse at different versions, but the reasons are pretty damn complicated. 1.65 stands out in memory because most people were extremely new to MMOs and so all of its rough edges sort of disappear from our memories of that version, but it was actually a really badly imbalanced moment with a big lack of variety otherwise. No matter how accurately the Devs reproduce 1.65, it's not going to play the same for people who are distinctly not new to MMOs anymore.

I don't blame the Devs for not wanting to touch this thing anymore, though. They've already put a ****** of work into Uthgard 1.0 and 2.0 and then everyone abandoned the product of that work. I'm sure it's highly demoralizing. It's a shame, though. I really like Uthgard 2.0 as a starting point. Like I said: it's a solid, stable server. However, it needed to have the idea of developing away from 1.65 in its vision from the start. Now, it's just too late.

joshisanonymous wrote:I really like Uthgard 2.0 as a starting point. Like I said: it's a solid, stable server. However, it needed to have the idea of developing away from 1.65 in its vision from the start. Now, it's just too late.

This

No.

This.

Nakja wrote:

Spivo wrote:Just my opinion though, but to me it's DaoC players that ruins or make great servers, not if Devs tweak this and that.

sign.

joshisanonymous wrote:I think people keep asking for the Devs to do something because Uthgard is a particularly solid, stable server. It's well done for what it aims to do; it's just that no one cares about those aims. It's just kind of bizarre to be like, "There was this one moment in the history of DAoC when everything was perfect, and we just want to fossilize that landscape for people to keep playing on," because there absolutely has never been a perfect moment in DAoC history. The game has been better or worse at different versions, but the reasons are pretty damn complicated. 1.65 stands out in memory because most people were extremely new to MMOs and so all of its rough edges sort of disappear from our memories of that version, but it was actually a really badly imbalanced moment with a big lack of variety otherwise. No matter how accurately the Devs reproduce 1.65, it's not going to play the same for people who are distinctly not new to MMOs anymore.

I don't blame the Devs for not wanting to touch this thing anymore, though. They've already put a ****** of work into Uthgard 1.0 and 2.0 and then everyone abandoned the product of that work. I'm sure it's highly demoralizing. It's a shame, though. I really like Uthgard 2.0 as a starting point. Like I said: it's a solid, stable server. However, it needed to have the idea of developing away from 1.65 in its vision from the start. Now, it's just too late.

I partly agree.
Vision is so important, and is to me what makes DaoC servers fail or well... most really failed if we look at a wide time-perspective
Uthgard is a classic server, that was the vision, but there are still non-classic stuff here, and that confuses people.
Because if A, why not B???

So servers needs to set up patch, but also in broad terms how they will deviate from that patch. And most importantly, a vision that allows it to evolve, without people going bonkers when it does.
Example. <<1.65, but will continiously work to balance classes so all classes are fun/viable to play.>> So when people ask why they buff XXX, they can point to stats on how much they are played, and refer to their vision.
<<1.65, but we want to let solo be suboptimal, both for PvE and RvR.>> So when people ask "why no full buff pots or solo farming", they can refer to their vision.

Finalement wrote:Till I realize that I hit the same mob for an hour and still did not ding, log out and do sth productive, just as the devs intended.

This!

Trinacu wrote:

Finalement wrote:Till I realize that I hit the same mob for an hour and still did not ding, log out and do sth productive, just as the devs intended.

This!

Pro tip: grey mobs don't give exp