Abydos wrote:Have just had a look, minimum value is 150 RP (keep lord only) + 150 per door destroyed, so 450 for a level 1 keep assuming you destroyed the doors, and, it reduces as the player count is more than 16.

Even so, if players are actively avoiding other players to knock keeps, that is an issue. You can't force people to RVR. If you take away that minor keep incentive, they'll either stay in the PVE zones or just quit altogether. Its human behavior. Not everyone likes playing in the same (or even intended) way.

I see you are trying to disprove my point by understating the amount of RPs one gains for keeptakes by arguing that it's "only" 450 by player for a lvl 1 keep with unupgraded doors.

1. It proves my point as 450 per player for a keep you can take in a mere few minutes with 0 risk and 0 difficulty is far from being a "minor keep incentive" in a context where if you roam you can go on hours without finding more than 2-3 people.
2. All keeps on uthgard come standard with lvl 4 doors even if they're unclaimed and left at lvl 1 as it only requires the wood salvaged from the rams previously used to take that keep. Therefore my figure of 1274 RP for a lvl 1 keep is far more standard than yours and it's either very disingenuous or misinformed to harp on about 450 per keep.
3. Why don't you communicate the full spreadsheet of how much the RP rewards go up because i have heard accounts of very surprising figures for the higher lvl, claimed keeps.


Furthermore, you and others who have the same talking point are missing the point of it all. It is not at all about forcing people to do anything. It is about:
1. actually upholding the pretense of recreating the 1.65 DAOC experience. See homepage for the reference.
2. incentivizing more playstyles to have their place on this server. If there wasn't such a focus on Keep RPs, there might actually be more of a PvP crowd.
3. Not forcing people who wish to better their character to engage into pve keeptakes because it's the only real viable option.

One could argue that people that currently play will quit if you remove RPs for keeps. I'd argue that's a load of crap and that it will incentivize people to:
a. come back to uthgard for those who liked pvp better than pve keep takes
b. go back to the FZ and do actual enjoyable RVR (not just roaming but keep defenses)

I am not at all surprised at how vocal people are on this thread about maintaining the current state of things as it takes a quick look at the herald/ig logs to figure that they're the same who engage in accruing ungodly amounts of RPs by not engaging in PVP at all.

Also it's all so ironic that this is a server that wiped and relaunched with the pretense of sticking closer to 1.65 classic, went back to old RAs (which nobody likes better than the new ones), poopooed every request for QOL from a dwindling community in the name of "classic", made no effort to derail the trend of uth becoming a graveyard in the name of classic.

And now you justify and defend the existence of a reward system that's completely custom and unclassic like by pretending to defend the existing community and their right to not engage with content they dislike.

Realm points were implemented as rewards for killing toons in the frontiers and RAs were introduced after the game launched, proof that you really don't need them if you don't like PVP and don't wish to engage with it.

Anyways, let us not "lose" the pvers that also want high RRs acquired through extensive door-kicking. They're such an integral part of this graveyard of a PVE server.

The landing page hasn't been updated in years, IMO it should be updated (especially the 'strict 1.65' bit.)

If anybody wanted, you could skim the 'News' sub forum and find things like 'We're changing the direction from strict 1.65' (Det3 for hybrids, multi-pots, etc...) Also, the detailed info on RPs for keeps has a news thread from the summer after relaunch...

Also, the landing page has a link to a herald....you can literally see where any keep taking is happening...many players have used this information to get generate PvP action...

Or...just hunt xp'ers and log as soon as any level 50 people show up

Grahmdal wrote:Also, the landing page has a link to a herald....you can literally see where any keep taking is happening...many players have used this information to get generate PvP action...

I absolutely wouldn't mind the keeps and rps for keeps system if what you said is possible.

However - these pro-keep takers, double/triple ram every door. So by the time flames are potentially even seen - if you happen to be watching the herald non-stop - then it's already too late. Even when you see spam from guards, it's usually too late when you get people together and make your way there. If people were roaming around and were in the right realm, then there would be a chance but why would anyone roam on an empty server.

In any case, by the time you get there, the keep is gone or taken. This is not news to anyone though, we all know this - including you.

It's part of the reason I took a long break and barely play anymore. I don't want to just upgrade doors after taking keeps in your mutual "suck the other realms slong" for rps over and over competition you are engaged in.

Possible ideas:
+ Reduce RPs for keeps based upon your realm rank (this would hurt me more than you noobs anyway). RR1 = 100%, RR2 = 95%, RR3 = 85%, RR4 = 70%, RR5 = 30%, RR6 = 20%, RR7 = 20%, RR8 = 20%, etc. Something like this...
+ Provide Realm wide announcements if enemy force approach keeps
+ OR at the very least when they hit a keep (whether claimed or not)
+ Alternatively provide instant flames on the herald (I've asked for this before)
+ Implement another source of RPs that will work as a incentive for roamers, soloers etc. - for example RvR missions, spotting enemy and reporting via a command (hello unthanked stealthers), increased defence RPs, increased RPs for realm with no or low relics and or no or low keeps

I like and could get behind most if not all of those ideas from Spy.

I too agree with many offered options to increase RVR/PVP participation. Many are sensible changes that do very little to change the feel of the game, but add outside the box approaches to encourage participation. I also agree the 1.65 target level is and has not been a strict adherence for this server. It was a good starting block, but in its pure form, it is not fun and out dated. It is IMO the most fun time of DAOC, and I also believe Uthgard has made some great changes to improve upon the classic feel.

Honestly who cares if other people get RPs for kicking down doors or doing any other play style others may not like. If you don't like it, don't do it, just like everything else in life you may not like to do, that other people do. It is still participation, they are still playing on this server, they are still in the FZ for hours on end, these RPs are not free, peoples' time is not free. Participation in any form should be encouraged!

Ahead of its time, DAOC has always been a participation award game. Skill is great to have, and will usually net you more kills/rps than lesser skilled players, but even the lowest skilled player can earn many RPs / RRs by putting more time into the game, or just being very selective about their engagements, than someone else does. Time invested = RPs/RRs. Killing doors, greys, afkers, xpers, zerging, adding, or just waiting for the Scissor to your Rock are all less competitive or noncompetitive forms of play that can earn participation rewards. Its too bad the game isn't/wasn't designed with some kind of algorithm to determine competitiveness of an RVR encounter and reward RPs/kills accordingly.

I have a suggestion:
Remove the Ranking page and on the Herald, and APIs that may report these numbers to other websites.
Remove the RP total / kill total on in game player info pages . Keep the XP type bar for gauging when you will RR up.
Remove RR titles that enemies see
Remove the RPs earned amount from chat logs.

It seems like some of the issue with keep take RPs is that players don't like seeing others gain something for what they consider nothing. If you can't see it, or have the numbers to back you up, you can't really complain about it.

Everyone knows after playing long enough who the good players/teams are, no need to advertise. Players should have to fight other players to find out how strong an opponent is and if they should fight or dodge. Letting players look up others to determine advantage is kind of like seeing them on the map, or the con color of a PVE monster. We don't need a ranking / look up page to know who is skilled and who is not. Play the game long enough and will know. If players quit the game because they cannot flaunt the size of their DAOC epeen it will be no great loss to the server.

IamKaia wrote:Shame nothing ever really changes on planet Uthgard despite common sense, because those with the power to implement changes are.. well..

Point that issue out and you still get non-sensical asinine arguments about how if you change it you won't have anyone left to roam against.


#blinkered#hashtag

This has happened with every shard/server that has put rewards for keeps and sure as doodoo i'm not the first to point it out.

The uthgard herald is very transparent about where RPs come from for players...

I mean isn't it obvious to everyone just how pveing keeps is galaxies more worthwhile in terms of RP yield than actual pvp?

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Just me, the person above and the person below in terms of LWRP. the last column is LWRP, the one before is total RP and the one before that is total player kills. Compare that with the rank to the left.

Players here have reached 5,6,7 L with little to no exposure to actual pvp. I'm sure that has NO INCIDENCE whatsoever on why so few people still bother roaming. Riiiight.

For a point of interest, it takes a grand total of 10 LVL 1 keep takes to reach that lvl of LWRP. it also requires 14 solo lvl 50 kills or 8 times that if you run a FG. Balanced.

This is laughable, I know this toon was created for taking keeps, Erog was made for the keep take and nothing else. That player does roam and solo on other toons. Can be hard to find anyone to kill when there is no one out in FZ.

IamKaia wrote:Players here have reached 5,6,7 L with little to no exposure to actual pvp. I'm sure that has NO INCIDENCE whatsoever on why so few people still bother roaming. Riiiight.

Plz go expose yourself to RR5+ people on this server...they need to learn how to PvP!

10 level 1 keeps = 450 RPs * 10 = 4500 RP assuming the keep was taken with fewer than 16 people and you are level 50...otherwise you're talking about upgraded keeps.
There's also a finite number of keeps that you can actually take before its over (21 max). If people are taking them back, you can make a point to go hunt them. If players aren't hunting each other, how do you propose that be forced?

Abydos wrote:10 level 1 keeps = 450 RPs * 10 = 4500 RP assuming the keep was taken with fewer than 16 people and you are level 50...otherwise you're talking about upgraded keeps.
There's also a finite number of keeps that you can actually take before its over (21 max). If people are taking them back, you can make a point to go hunt them. If players aren't hunting each other, how do you propose that be forced?

don't worry Aby, if you check all the forums you will see that is only spitting negativity on everything the others say here or try in game

No opinion on this, but I'll say that Petrushka is about the only green kill spam I see when I am in the frontiers ( I hide away in corners while I level so that I don't get grey-ganked)

I think RvR missions will help a lot. These sound really fun: https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/ ... l_3_realms

In the mean time, players could try to just make action in the bonus zone (instead of wandering 12 zones all night for 1-2 xp'ers)

Also....Caledonia still has a bit of PvP action (so I hear) just from people farming the named for ROGs...

What about putting a tough(ish) named mob in Claret, that also has a high ROG accessory drop-rate?

Maybe even linking Claret kill-spam to the main RvR zones?

Or Including Claret in the bonus zone rotation?

The bonus zone (and Claret) could be such a nice place for solo/small action...why is it dead as a door nail? 60+ people on, we all have templated 50s...we have fundamental QoL....nice QoL for hybrids...and there's no FGs mopping up free RP from solo/small....

Anyway, just my thoughts on what will hopefully, or should be, part of the server, in addition to keep taking (which I think is a fine thing to incentivize...but it doesn't have to be the only show in town.)