Thanks for the quick reply, Skull. I think we are in general agreement.

In general, I think a guiding principle should be to do things that make play easier except where it devalues work other players have already put in. And avoid weird or gimmicky changes.

When i was at dinner I was thinking of the exact same stealther example you mentioned:

P1: "What character are you leveling?"
P2: "This Necro is my Infiltrator"
P1: "Ackk, do you know how much time i put in to level my Infiltrator!? And what does one have to do with the other? I quit!"


So changing class would bother me a lot (weird, and devalues others' work), but easier respecs would not bother me too much. I do not have a problem with this because all players would potentially benefit equally, whether old or new. (But there always should be some cost involved).

I think having the GMs put stones on consignment vendors at prices they previously were at (by realm) would be a simple solution that would require no reprogramming, testing, or version control. In essence, it would set a ceiling on prices. In Hib, prices were typically 900-1200 gold when i bought some during times of healthy populations (lol, I think I even bought one from your house for 990!). So if the GMs kept a Hib supply on sale for 1500g, folks with existing stones would still get fair value but inflation would remain in check. No one would buy them for resale because they couldn't get more than the GM's were selling them for. No hording or price gouging, but still room to profit from dragon raids. In essence, the devs would be adding a healthy-server shadow economy.

But that is just mechanics. If they charged at the trainer the end result is the same.

Being "careful not to devalue work others have already put in" is also why I think they need to be careful not to overdo things like charges and potions. A buffbot-in-a-bottle is still a buffbot. It devalues the group-dependent buffing characters. It may sound great at first, but ultimately if everyone is super-charged then no one is.

Things like the faster 3 minute necklace teleporters are fine. Everyone benefits the same.

Okay new stipulation. Minimum RR5 for reclass. So that would eliminate basically every character you have plywood and you can keep your "PvE effort".

Pompernick wrote:Okay new stipulation. Minimum RR5 for reclass. So that would eliminate basically every character you have plywood and you can keep your "PvE effort".

This is just getting stranger and stranger. Just play the character you want, or don't play. Really, why the hell would someone level a character to RR5 so they can play a difference class? That makes no sense at all. You are just jumping from thread to thread complaining and wanting the entire server to change because you picked the wrong class to level up to RR5. If you don't like your character, don't expect the devs to make a major change so you don't have to level up like everyone else did. Just make a new one. I have a 4L7 I will probably never play again, but the fun was playing him. When he was not fun anymore I stopped playing him and made another character I did want to play.

i got 4 level 50's in the last couple of months. it really isn't hard. I even offered to go to Hib and power level you, but even that was too much effort on your part.

I really think you are in the wrong game for what you want. Just review your last 4 or 5 posts and tell me you will be happy on this server. Even if they made this change, you'd leave in a few weeks anyway because it won't address the root cause of your dissatisfaction.

Before these tantrums derail this useful thread - I believe there is merit in the idea. It needs working out and maybe its a case that you can respec 50 (or 4x) characters to a slightly lower level and a big loss in RPs....

Something like this:
Lvl 50-RR7 char => Lvl 47 - RR4l2 char
Lvl 50-RR5 char => Lvl 45 - RR2l0 char
Lvl 50-RR2 char => Lvl 45 - RR1l0 char
Lvl 50-RR1 char => Lvl 42 - RR1l0 char
Lvl 4x Char => Lvl30 - RR1l0 char

This then shows that just PL-ing a char means you will have to make some RvR effort or accept that you would only get a lvl42 char or lower if you don't make it to 40.

I as a player of many lvl50 chars am not really interested in doing the trade, as I would not want to lose the effort I've made and have no interest in new chars. It also wouldn't upset me if someone did use it either. To use this facility, something has to be given up. You would have to level up, regain RPs, and template for the new class.

It does however, give an incentive to someone that leveled the wrong thing and gave up Uthgard - something they could start with that might suit them better without having to start from lvl 1. This with the recent and changes from last summer, might make Uthgard more attractive again. More players = more fun for everyone!

Plywood wrote:In general, I think a guiding principle should be to do things that make play easier except where it devalues work other players have already put in. And avoid weird or gimmicky changes.

Inq, the proposal with the tweaks presented does satisfy the first principle I suggested above. But it misses on the second part completely. It would be a very inelegant and clumsy change that still does not address the root causes of the server issues. Like I said, I would wager most people who left already had multiple level 50 characters of various classes. You need to ask first "Why did people leave" and address that. A very small number may say "I picked the wrong class and did not want to level another", but my gut instinct is that would be very low on the list given virtually everyone I know who left had multiple level 50s.

So, why did people leave? Do you still keep in contact with folks who left so you can ask them? I was in a different game when the collapse happened, but what was the chatter like at the time? And I don't mean they went to another game, but why did they go to a different game? A follow-up question is "What would it take for you to return?" Again, they may say the ability to switch classes, but I suspect that will be low on the list. It may be we are in a catch-22... people will come back when the population increases or their friends return (the same death spiral that kills social media sites like MySpace and Friendster). I have accepted it is a different game now (probably permanently) and am still having fun. When it is no longer fun then I will leave or take a break.

You will also be dealing with the problem of buyer's remorse as people realize they have permanently destroyed a well-earned character for one that is maybe not as fun as they expected.

For this proposal, would the new character be limited to the same realm? Could they go from a low population realm to a high one? Or from a high one to a low one?

I cannot envision a developer ever sitting down and coding this change in. It's not gonna happen.

I feel like we need something tho. SI launch could be it. But need some fireworks on top to attract more.

I think people left as Phoenix looked shiney and made big promises. It had a decent launch but of course it's flopping now a bit. Hopefully that'll hurry up and we could have an influx of interested again people.

I know some people left as there were issues with Uthgard. Some of these have likely been fixed - there are now easier ways of doing what was originally here. Recent changes and the good ones from last summer. However - just logging in to Uthgard, all you see is a massive lack of RvR activity and maybe on the surface of it, nothing seems very different. It's a tricky thing to do anything about.

The reroll idea was just something that jumped out to me as a good idea to prompt people to try Uthgard. I get that not everyone agrees or wants that. A big XP or RP event would be nice like we had last year. There was a 50% boost in RP in certain zones and XP in other ways too if I remember rightly. It's summer now, it's a good time to do this again.

I made a bard, literally I can't get a group to save my life spamming for hours. Not even 1 leveling friend. I'm literally going backwards going from rr6 to rr1, with this Idea. Hell, just make it a temporary event, a stone... a RR requirement.. Just something so I can play the game on a dead server. Coming back to this much inaction just isn't going to keep me here for any amount of time without the ability to build groups.

It doesn't even guarantee any success or uptick in action. It is just a step. Let me lead some noobs.

Plywood I'll tell you my toons name so you can get satisfaction in killing me.

It's a win win.

kinthos wrote:I think people left as Phoenix looked shiney and made big promises. It had a decent launch but of course it's flopping now a bit. Hopefully that'll hurry up and we could have an influx of interested again people.

Hopefully.

Alb has regularly scheduled dragon raids and of course the Romu zergs. Yesterday I counted 25 on the zerg, with maybe about 6 or 8 brave mids defending (and one Hib Ranger stalking about). Then after prime time Europe it drops. As of right now, there are literally 0 people in Alb (was 1 before I logged off, was in Alb for two days to finish a few lose ends).

I think a special event could bring folks back for a one-time or weekly basis. Then maybe some would remember how much they liked their characters and stick around. But if someone is not coming to the forums or website, how would they know about it?

Pompernick wrote:
Plywood I'll tell you my toons name so you can get satisfaction in killing me.

"It's a trap!" - Admiral Ackbar

Pompernick wrote:I made a bard, literally I can't get a group to save my life spamming for hours.

What I do is work on multiple characters at once. I will have a farmer character that is good at solo and making money at high levels. And I will have 1 or 2 or even 3 I will be leveling at various levels for when an xp group opens. Don't grind, just have fun and go with the flow. Don't worry if they ever hit 50. If one hits 50 then make another. The main thing is to not be in a hurry to level them, but instead just have fun. Surprisingly, they level fast that way and you will learn a lot about how other classes are played.

Any 50 is a candidate for keep takes and rvr, or power-leveling friends, depending on what is needed. Inq once gave me advice to be flexible on which character to play, and i find that to be very useful. However, with the low population almost any character is taken into a group because people are less fussy than before. Even stealthers.

I will also have a Tailor (my farmer character), and dedicated alchemist and dedicated spellcrafter for making my template items and potions. A lot of people craft during off hours. Level them a bit so they can carry more. Pick classes with speed and str or str buffs.

The main thing is to get into a rvr group or initiate one as soon as enough people are logged on to take a keep. Maybe you'll just take keeps, but if lucky there will be some defenders. Keep takes are how you find each other.

Don't go anonymous and make sure your realm mates don't either (hopefully, no enemy will be so petty as to be dual logged). If you see 4 people on, you probably can start taking keeps because most will have lvl 50 alts and they are killing time waiting just like you are. I have been in groups where 3 players took a keep or 7 took a relic.

In priority order (may vary):

1. RVR against players
2. Keep takes
3. XP and PL groups
4. Solo XP
5. Crafting/Salvaging/Trinketing/Template
6. Farming

Help any newbies you happen to see. They are potential guild recruits.

I don't like to play solo or stealthers, but if I did Hib would be my choice. Albs have the most targets in u.S. afternoon. Heck, my Theurgist went from 43 to 50 at Necro mountain and only got ganked twice. If I liked to play stealthers, I would definitely make one in hib (and no more auto-training). In Mid, we PL our stealthers for keep take inner doors.

So you almost always have something useful to do. You don't need to spam /LFG, but instead just keep an eye on guild and alliance folks logged on while you re doing other things (or even watching TV). Do /WHO ALL a lot. Keep in mind just because you only see a lvl 20, it doesn't mean that person doesn't have 6 alts waiting for action just like you. /LFG only shows to characters in your character range so is very limited. Most likely you will be grouping with their alts.

I have been playing Mid 90% of the time because my guild there is a fantastic group of people, but I find occasional trips to other realms (using the timer per the rules) adds variety. It is also more fun killing or being killed by people you know and have grouped with. You get a good perspective.

I feel the majority of people are playing where the action is, and that's the problem at the moment. Uthgard has no stable action. I have a good feeling that the RvR tasks will form the base of action and in turn this will grow to small-men and fgs again. Uthgard needs to focus on rebuilding its core player base. This player base is key to the casuals staying or leaving.

I would really like to see the staff market this news better, and combine it with all the other changes they have previously made). There really isn't much to dislike with the setting after the changes (perhaps healers and hastners are border keeps mmh )

The other server is definitely on a down slope. Too fast, and inconsiderate changes are driving people away. The problem is, these people are brain washed with easy mode. For example, insta ports, insta action, 20k rp/hour.

Sadly it doesn't help that every time Hib (dunno about Mid) try to get back on our feet, the Romu zerg rides through town and destroys it all again. We don't have the numbers, the setup (never any druids), or the morale to keep putting up with it as it stands. The only other action is Schmi with his boring pro keep take crew - they have the "only engage a keep if it's empty" policy so will just run away from the slightest chance of an actual in game fight.

Now in case you think I am just moaning for the sake of it. I am not. Hib were starting to build up a bit from what I could see. Solum/Mortus were getting numbers each night and things were happening every day. Now thats stopped and the only hibs willing to go out are usually the same 4/5 players whenever they happen to be logged on. Thats all we have. Eeeesh it's frustrating. It's either no action or overwhelming odds.



Oh this reminds me. Remove the damn 3 minute delay for flames!!! Then we can try to defend before the 2nd door is down every time.

Don't blame Romu...blame the folks who play a different server 5 days a week, but show up twice a week to "contribute" to Uthgard. Romu is here daily, doing various things, building PvE groups...crafting...every time I need to buy something it's a long horse ride to house 4982

Really looking forward to RvR missions at any rate.