Battleground community and FZ RVR community?

General Topics on Dark Age of Camelot/Uthgard
Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 02:20

Ilerget wrote:
Tree wrote:There is a huge misconception about this on Uthgard. Its not about getting people, or rather characters into the frontier, its about getting characters of somewhat equal footing into the frontier.
XP incentives to get low level characters into the frontier is bad gamedesign. Making the way to 50 fun, rewarding and easy enough so people actually get there is the top priority.
Allowing characters to stay in BGs forever defeats the purpose of BGs offering alternative/more risky routes to 50, XPing characters will just be farmed by fully equipped max level toons.

Therefore this server needs:

1. Abolishment of all XP and crafting incentives in frontier zones.
2. Farmable XP spots for groups and solos in all BGs.
3. XP incentives for battlegrounds
4. Crafting incentives in BG center keeps (vendor material somewhat equal to BG level with netherite etc as max material)
5. Daily XP boost for solo casual players

Make it so.

seems good to me


Nope your not getting it.
Some people prefer BG RVR over FZ RVR and would rather spend their time online IN the BG because of time restraints and it's faster. The reason why there's no NA population IS because BG's aren't like they were on Uthgard 1.0, which had a very large BG community at all BG levels there was always some action and population for NA time zone was much larger then the 60 people Uthgard 2.0 gets to these days.

Bring back Uthgard 1.0 BG and when the American Uthgard fans come back when SI drops and see that BG's are good again they may deicde to spend their time online in Uthgard instead of all the NEW Games available to them that offer BG's and FZ RVR.

Unless you don't want to have a NA population, in that case just remove BG's completely..or leave them as they are now. You'll have your 40 people during NA time and a server that never breaks over 250 players during Euro time.

(NA likes BG, NA population will increase if they're changed back to Uthgard 1.0. If you don't want NA population increase then don't do anything. It doesn't need any of that stuff Tree said, it just needs /rp on off and change NF keeps and bridges because originals are BORING. The Keeps and bridges were upgraded to NF for a reason.)

Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 02:52

I can see your motivation to want to move the crafting incentives over to BG keeps Tree. Mid's control Beno and DC 90% of the time these days so neither realm gets access to the crafting bonuses. You want easier access by putting them in BG keeps that can be taken by less then a full group at the lower levels instead of putting together a FZ groups to go take your keeps back because of low population.
Your idea's aren't going to help population. They are going to make people less motivated to go take keeps in FZ.
My ideas are aimed at trying to get NA players back online.

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Tree
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Postby Tree » Sep 19, 2018 02:56

I do very much understand your sentiment and my post probably wasnt comprehensive enough.

NA players were in a tough spot for the longest time and for various reasons. We have since reached a player low at NA prime that makes interesting gameplay of any sort hard to come by. Its the literal critical mass you need to make DAoC as an MMO, RvR, group game viable.

To get back to critical mass I suggested SI as a cornerstone release WITH a big QoL patch attached, the same QoL we get as small incremental patches now. The problem with incremental patches is, we will never get any significant amount of players back at one time to create the momentum needed that makes players think "Wow Uthgard really is alive and well, Im really looking forward to play again tomorrow"

Thats the situation we are at. If you accept this as the unchanging status quo, then well maybe nothing really matters anymore.
All I am saying is the purpose of BGs should not be to create a dumbed down or easier RvR environment for the few remaining NA players or any player at all.BGs should be an alternative route to 50 with more risk and RvR action than normal homezone XPing, thus making the road to 50 more engaging and fun for the more RvR oriented players.
Now do they serve this purpose well in their current state? No, absolutely not.

So the decisions is; do away with their purpose or make them serve their purpose better?

Using them to create an alternative NA endgame environment and therefore admitting classic DAoC RvR failed on Uthgard (at least for NA players) would be a shame. Should there be other ways to help NA players have a quality DAoC experience? Yes, absolutely. How? At this point I dont know, regaining critical mass is kinda tricky. I explained my initial suggestion at the beginning, but that ship probably has sailed. Other ways to maybe win back smaller amounts of players over time would be targeted changes that help make the game more interesting even with low population, e.g. bonuses for solo players, RvR tasks, XP and maybe RP bonuses during NA time, special events for NA players.
Tree - Animist Lvl 50 (RR 3L0, Legendary Tailor)
Aeomelia - Enchanter Lvl 50
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Tree
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Postby Tree » Sep 19, 2018 03:10

Malach wrote:I can see your motivation to want to move the crafting incentives over to BG keeps Tree. Mid's control Beno and DC 90% of the time these days so neither realm gets access to the crafting bonuses. You want easier access by putting them in BG keeps that can be taken by less then a full group at the lower levels instead of putting together a FZ groups to go take your keeps back because of low population.
Your idea's aren't going to help population. They are going to make people less motivated to go take keeps in FZ.
My ideas are aimed at trying to get NA players back online.


I have never (yep not once) used the frontier crafting bonus and said from the very beginning that it is a very bad game design choice just the same as the overproportional XP bonuses in frontier. They incentivise characters that are 90% not even close in strength to fight each other, thus creating a bad gaming experience for both parties. One being farmed and roflstomped and the other experiencing boring, unchallenging and unfun fights.
It should be the goal of all gamedesign to get more people into frontier that have a somewhat equal footing, meaning at least equipped level 50 characters.

Again maybe I wasnt clear enough, I want the crafting bonus in BG keeps, because it would further incentivise XPing characters to engange with RvR in BGs, have more to do there and get an additional "reward" for defending and holding a keep. Plus it will put crafters as additional defenders into the BG keep, which in turn creates more action for the next attacking force.
Now it will also not drain RvR zones of potential keep takers, because the boost to BGs is only aimed at players that still XP their characters and still level their crafting (read my post carefully, crafting material level according to BG level and even in highest BG no endgame materials)
So if you want to experience endgame RvR and crafting you still have to go somewhere else than BGs. BGs should never be the endgame but rather a way to reach the endgame in a more fun and engaging way.
Tree - Animist Lvl 50 (RR 3L0, Legendary Tailor)
Aeomelia - Enchanter Lvl 50
Guild: SCHWERT & ROSE (provisional guild leader)

[HIB] Crafting Mat Wholesale
Diamond, Wyvernskin, Nightshade, Eldritch etc. huge quantities below vendor price - pm me!

Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 03:22

Nah, FZ isn't going to "fail" Euro's love FZ and even the BG community will have to go into FZ to take keeps and relics when needed where the FZ community won't have to go into BG at all if they don't want to because there won't be anything they "need" there.

The only thing that will make FZ fail is the current population of the server. That would mean Uthgard fails, once pop drops under 100 consistently what point is there even to have a server at all?

There is only one argument that I wouldn't be able to argue with. That would be if a DEV came into the conversation and plainly state they won't change BG's at all.

No one can give any good reason to keep BG's as they are (guild groups owning, templated characters, high RR, etc) that can't be denied already happens in FZ RVR (in greater degrees) and everyone's ok with it, and if some aren't ok with it they can't argue with it.

Short = FZ RVR won't be made redundant, it will still be popular with Euro population. Which I'd have to guess is well over 50% of the server population. Still have to take Keeps/Relics and there's the xp bonus and crafting bonus for the brave.

Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 03:37

Tree wrote:I have never (yep not once) used the frontier crafting bonus and said from the very beginning that it is a very bad game design choice just the same as the overproportional XP bonuses in frontier. They incentivise characters that are 90% not even close in strength to fight each other, thus creating a bad gaming experience for both parties. One being farmed and roflstomped and the other experiencing boring, unchallenging and unfun fights.
It should be the goal of all gamedesign to get more people into frontier that have a somewhat equal footing, meaning at least equipped level 50 characters.

Again maybe I wasnt clear enough, I want the crafting bonus in BG keeps, because it would further incentivise XPing characters to engange with RvR in BGs, have more to do there and get an additional "reward" for defending and holding a keep. Plus it will put crafters as additional defenders into the BG keep, which in turn creates more action for the next attacking force.
Now it will also not drain RvR zones of potential keep takers, because the boost to BGs is only aimed at players that still XP their characters and still level their crafting (read my post carefully, crafting material level according to BG level and even in highest BG no endgame materials)
So if you want to experience endgame RvR and crafting you still have to go somewhere else than BGs. BGs should never be the endgame but rather a way to reach the endgame in a more fun and engaging way.


Well maybe you haven't but the last time I took Beno there was a low level dwarf sitting at the forge there either afk or afk/third party skilling up cause he never reacted or released to us breaking the door down, hitting him, and killing him. I imagine a lot of people do that to keep out of the eye of others reporting their characters for third party trade skill leveling.

If the BG's are changed to NF models and /rp on off is put in AND population starts coming back to use them there own't need to be XP bonuses added. People will max out their XP before they max out their RP's just by battling each other with the current bonuses in place already.

Just change the BG's to NEWFRONTIERS models, add /rp on off, and a level 50 battlegrounds for people that don't have the time to FZ RVR (majority of that time is waiting at the border keeps and running around large areas looking for RVR or Player VS Door, it takes to long)

Highdrone
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Postby Highdrone » Sep 19, 2018 06:43

Tree can you please join the Playercouncil?
That'd be great!

Malach, i feel you are assuming too much.
I don't say we should stay where we are and don't change anything.

But i doubt that your ideas would be the changing point in terms of population.

How do you know that 'many' players left due to the current BG situation?
How do you know that the population would rise, if devs give some more love to BGs?

In the end iam happy for any changes that cause a growing population, so maybe its the BGs...?

Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 07:43

Highdrone wrote:How do you know that 'many' players left due to the current BG situation?
How do you know that the population would rise, if devs give some more love to BGs?


/sigh...well all Uthgard 1.0 battlegrounds had at least some action. The battle grounds over lvl 30 had the most. Uthgard 2.0 battlegrounds have next to none.

Players didn't just leave due to current BG of course...
1.)People have real life responsibilities we aren't teenagers anymore. Not everyone has hours and days on end to game out.
2.)Games these days make everything easier on all levels, so going from current easy mod games to hard mod is in itself enough to make a lot of people leave.
3.)All games these days have a variety of player vs player, RVR, and BG. Currently all Uthgard has is FZ or empty BG its missing out on a portion of people that like different mods of player vs play.
4.) FZ groups take to long to get going people have busy lives and don't have 4 or 5 hours to run 4 run in current large FZ zones.
5.)SI dropping will bring a portion of people back to check the server out again, if they like the changes they'll stay, PVP/RVR is endgame for DAoC/Uthgard. Give people more choices.
6.)IF adding changes to BG doesn't work, and they still stay empty...then no harm to the game was done anyway. Cause they'll still have a population of zero like they currently do. Can't do any worse then current state of BG.

Do you like:
Having a game population that is lucky to see numbers over 200 during peak time (euro time) and a low population of around 60 during NA time?
One realm owns most of the keeps practically all day, week, month now. Sometimes Alb and Hib get a keep take group up to take them for access to DF, then they log out and/or move their alts into DF while they have access.

SI will bring SOME people back. IF the changes are enough to keep them and maybe they tell/bring some friends population will rise. These changes need to be implemented before SI drops.

That will be the last chance the server has to get players back, there's nothing "new" coming after SI.

Assumptions? Sure, I can't see the future. But I'm putting the pieces together as I see them. When people leave Uthgard they go play other games, when they play other games they become invested in those games, when they become invested in other game they stay in that game.

Lets say I could stop playing Uthgard right now and play Elderscrolls online, I won't be back for 2 years, if I even want to come back. I'm investing in building characters and having fun in BG's and RVR there because there's more options. Not to mention easier to level, gear up, and a POPULATION.

Lets say a lot of the people that quit Uthgard did something similar to that.

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Ilerget
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Postby Ilerget » Sep 19, 2018 09:17

Malach wrote:Nope your not getting it.

I think its you who don't get it, me, and others, have opposite opinions to yours in this subject but you keep try forcing others to see it like you.
It's the thrill of the chase
and I'm coming after you.

Malach
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Postby Malach » Sep 19, 2018 09:31

Ilerget wrote:
Malach wrote:Nope your not getting it.

I think its you who don't get it, me, and others, have opposite opinions to yours in this subject but you keep try forcing others to see it like you.


Well, the sad thing is most of the people that would agree with me have left to play other games...
So maybe I'll run the updates on my Xbox and check back in 2 years or when SI comes out. Whichever comes first.

How low does population need to be for Devs to decide to switch the server off? Under 50? Almost there during NA time.

You have fun running around empty FZ and Mids constantly having all keeps bud.

Stasis
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Postby Stasis » Sep 19, 2018 10:40

I would love to level 10-50 in bg only (pvp).
That way i think even a rr gap wouldnt be that hard, since you got a lot of experience from pvp when you hit the "door/wall" of rr7+ ( they die too with assists and good play)

Whats sad is that alb muster 1 pug fg i guess most nights, and 3-4 stealthers and we got a zerg when Romu plays.
hibs aint in much better shape and mids have a 1-3 guild grps (roflstump everything when they join forces)
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Alcan
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Postby Alcan » Sep 19, 2018 13:26

+1 Stasis!

erock25
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Postby erock25 » Sep 20, 2018 19:41

I agree with Malach and Statis, I would come back for NF battlegrounds

Malach
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Postby Malach » Oct 06, 2018 00:22

bumping this since there was a thread for /rp off a few days ago

unincoinco
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Postby unincoinco » Oct 06, 2018 02:14

I can only see positive things having more people online even if its only for having fun in BG's.


Yes, you and every other reasonable human being that ever came to these forums. The thing is though, BGs have been good and set for a long time. Sadly, I am going to be misunderstood but I will do my best.

Basically, whenever there were active people in a BG, say like 2FG per realm which I am guessing doesn't happen anymore, but it used to every once in a while when I played here a year or more ago?

I feel like BGs have BEEN good the entire time.

I think though that the angry loud population here doesn't want BGs. They don't like BGs. The only thing they want to do is 8 man RvR. And if you aren't interested in 8 man RvR, you'll basically be discluded from things down the line, people won't want to play with you. It may not be an outright thing where they call you out on it, but after a good number of interactions, it is clear that they have no business with what you want to do and they have had their mind made up for many years at this point as to the way that this game should be played. Imo, you can't play this game the way it was meant to be played any more. That is why I think just take what is good and use it. But the DAoC player doesn't seem interested in battlegrounds.

If you come to this server, and try to make the most of what IS here, you won't last very long imo. Or even if you do, there aren't enough people like you to make it worth it to spend much time here. I loved doing battlegrounds. It's quick, you don't have to invest a lot. At the end of the day, PvP is PvP and whether it is on the frontier or whatever, it is PvP and that is good enough for me. But I am not a diehard DAoC fan. I played other mmos before DAoC. EverQuest, NexusTK, Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, all before DAoC was even released.

I feel because of this my perspective is not the same as most of you here.

The holy grail of fun times has been here for a very long time now but I think the elitist population that thinks they know the 1 true way to play scares off players. Either you become one of them, which isn't something most people want to do, or you just leave. I honestly don't think they would want BGs to be a success because maybe then FZ would have less action? I'm out. lol

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