Let's talk about the population

General Topics on Dark Age of Camelot/Uthgard
albeyond
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Postby albeyond » Nov 07, 2019 13:10

At it's peak, there are not enough players here to attract fresh blood to the server. We know that historically DAoC freeshards level out over time and produce a peak population of ~600-800 eu and ~300-400 NA. We've seen it on multiple versions of classic freeshards.

However, Uthgard has about 60 EU and 20 NA. This is not conducive to new players joining the server when there are more robust alternatives. With that said, can we please have a mature discussion about what can be done to mitigate this? It would be particularly helpful if GMs could join the discussion and give us some insight about what the plan is, considering the home page has not been updated since June.

munchies
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Postby munchies » Nov 07, 2019 14:41

Every 2nd thread in this subforum is about the population and the hope to get more insight & vision from the staff.

You can make your conclusions.

IamKaia
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Postby IamKaia » Nov 07, 2019 15:44

munchies wrote:Every 2nd thread in this subforum is about the population and the hope to get more insight & vision from the staff.

You can make your conclusions.

+1

I'm not opposed to folks keepin at it though

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Grahmdal
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Postby Grahmdal » Nov 07, 2019 16:19

It might help to edit the front page main text...still says 'authentic 1.65...'
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Highdrone
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Postby Highdrone » Nov 08, 2019 16:51

In my oppinion the largest problem is devs not communicating/updating Website.

But this problem is well known for a long time now.
Last year it seemed they are gonna adress it, but then it quickly returned to business as usual.

This leaves us only with one solution:

Shut down and restart server from zero!!!!!!!! (Just a joke, i dumped so freaking many hours in boring crafting and leveling i will not return if that happens^^)

Advertise this server and try to get some peeps onboard :)

Kazvall
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Postby Kazvall » Nov 08, 2019 23:11

Listen, they don't have enough manpower, money, or time to promote, develop, and provide public relations for the server in the capacity of a game that is paid for and expanded. Either people come play on it, or they don't. I for one enjoy the classic settings, and would hop on if I thought it was meaningful to do so. People have chosen other alternatives. Until you get an email one day saying SI is out, I would consider this server dead to all but the most hardcore players that have chosen to stay here.

GamingIcon
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Postby GamingIcon » Nov 09, 2019 04:49

Highdrone wrote:In my oppinion the largest problem is devs not communicating/updating Website.

But this problem is well known for a long time now.
Last year it seemed they are gonna adress it, but then it quickly returned to business as usual.

This leaves us only with one solution:

Shut down and restart server from zero!!!!!!!! (Just a joke, i dumped so freaking many hours in boring crafting and leveling i will not return if that happens^^)

Advertise this server and try to get some peeps onboard :)


I don't know about if advertising would help. But as for restarting; by itself that won't help with population either due to it's reputation with the "challenge" (as stated by staff) for progression. However, if we were to consider what some of the main complaints from players/ex players of another well-known popular server and then this project here comes to a bit of a compromise on scaling back on the "challenge" of slow progressions in xp and crafting - then combine that with an announced restart in the near future, THEN we will see a population boom.

Want to get SI beta testing done quickly? Get more people here interested in helping. Otherwise in the current state, it will be 2045 before we even get another announcement about yet another stage of SI testing versus it being complete in 6 months.

BTW, I have a question. What was the purpose of the player council here since the end results was for us to see only a total of 67 players online during weekend prime time?

IamKaia
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Postby IamKaia » Nov 10, 2019 14:54

Guide to unfooking this server:

1. Remove any and all RP rewards for keep takes.
Rationale: If people want to take keeps, sure i am fine with it as it is part of the game. RP rewards for keeps was never a thing and should not be a thing. At the moment, 98% of the Uthgard PVP has devolved into albs and mids taking turns for all the keeps, with very little to no actual keep defending involving players. 2-3 times a week, albs congregate into a massive ball of death with 3 to 4 fg that no other realm can match and just pve farm doors until no more keeps are left. This creates a situation where no other PvP is encouraged because of the low population and the incentive to just take keeps and literally dodge players is much too high.
Let them all get off of their ram and go out if they want to progress their characters in RvR.


2. Implement RvR tasks (e.g: Kill 5 players solo, Kill 5 mids, etc.)
Rationale: Replace the frankly degenerate pve keep taking by RvR task, further encouraging roaming and actual PvP, including for realms that can not hope to put a fg or more together, so that they too can hope to have a little bit of fun. :roll:

3. Start Posting bi-weekly/monthly Updates on what the Uthgard staff is working on and delivering (which implies delivering by the by :roll: )
Rationale: At the moment, the Uthgard staff is just not communicating *anything*. It is a terrible look as it just about tells both the community and players who are waiting for reasons to come back that you're leaving the server in a permanent state of disrepair. Furthermore, pretty sure it would not take very look to post a 3 line update post every 2 weeks/month to communicate on what you're working on.

3. Keep Uthgard social media up-to-date with the updates mentioned in 3.

Rationale: Come on. Not that much effort required in posting a link to the forum on your FB/IG page.

4. Delete the player council.

Rationale: From what i gather, it is a lamentations wall style thread where the most populated realms take turns moaning about whatever takes their fancy instead of adressing key issues/balancing/classfixing. Since this thing is basically a lobbying echo chamber, just do away with it.

5. Get back to working on SI with the actual goal of delivering it within our lifetimes

Rationale: Probably the single most awaited thing by players who took a break/went to Phoenix/burned out.

6. Maybe it's time to rethink the approach to some minor QOL additions provided they're in line with the classic approach and don't affect RvR/Economy overmuch. (e.g: Healers and rechargers in Svasud/DL/Castle Sauvage for instance :roll: )

7. Come up with some tweaks for tackling Hibernia's population compared to the other 2 realms.
On most nights, Hibernia represents less than 10% of the server population. Most of the time it's even less than that. The last dragon kill on hib dates back to the release of the Phoenix shard. At what point do you think that maybe the vicious cycle of hib desertification should be addressed so that they may hope to access some of the higher tiered content/loot/respec stones?

8. I'm sorry but can we discuss the animist, the pet interruptability and the general ****** of the class implementation? maybe the best keep defense class on this realm could use some looking into... :roll:
I find it a bit rich that the cabalist pet is still doing all sorts of crazy things but the other pets aren't and the animist is nerfed into the ground?


Quite frankly, do half of the above and you've got yourself a server imo.

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Grahmdal
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Postby Grahmdal » Nov 10, 2019 15:39

IamKaia wrote:
8. I'm sorry but can we discuss the animist, the pet interruptability and the general ****** of the class implementation? maybe the best keep defense class on this realm could use some looking into... :roll:
I find it a bit rich that the cabalist pet is still doing all sorts of crazy things but the other pets aren't and the animist is nerfed into the ground?


AFAIK the main issue with Animist FnF pets stopping has been fixed...what do you think is wrong?

I've played with and against good animists, I'm curious though...why now do you think they're 'nerfed into the ground'?

What's going on with cabby pets? Most cabs put 30-40+ points into their pet buff line, so they're chunkier in general...is that what you mean?
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IamKaia
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Postby IamKaia » Nov 10, 2019 15:58

Grahmdal wrote:
IamKaia wrote:
8. I'm sorry but can we discuss the animist, the pet interruptability and the general ****** of the class implementation? maybe the best keep defense class on this realm could use some looking into... :roll:
I find it a bit rich that the cabalist pet is still doing all sorts of crazy things but the other pets aren't and the animist is nerfed into the ground?


AFAIK the main issue with Animist FnF pets stopping has been fixed...what do you think is wrong?

I've played with and against good animists, I'm curious though...why now do you think they're 'nerfed into the ground'?

What's going on with cabby pets? Most cabs put 30-40+ points into their pet buff line, so they're chunkier in general...is that what you mean?



Of all the points you choose to challenge that one? :roll:

1. FnF get interrupted by damage. edit: apparently fixed now
2. Bomber dd in arboreal do not interrupt. edit: apparently fixed now
3. verdant spec does not work as intended.
4. creeping specc debuff pets don't seem to function. edit: tested, doesnt work
5. cabalist pet seem to get ignored by guards.
6. cabalist pet seem to still be able to be put in aggro outside a keep near the ramp and aggro passers by through the wall.
Last edited by IamKaia on Nov 10, 2019 18:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Grahmdal
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Postby Grahmdal » Nov 10, 2019 17:17

I'm not 'challenging'...your list basically had one point worth discussing...

As far as the new list, I agree Verdant PBAE variance needs work...and I thought dd-bombers interrupting was fixed (4370).

Creep debuffs seem to work just fine...and I'm pretty sure FnF DD turrets aren't supposed to have passive MoC...

I don't see what whining about cab pets has to do with Animists...?

Especially when it's pathing/npc interaction that effects every pet class in every realm...
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Satiah
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Postby Satiah » Nov 10, 2019 17:29

Grahmdal wrote:I'm not 'challenging'...your list basically had one point worth discussing...

As far as the new list, I agree Verdant PBAE variance needs work...and I thought dd-bombers interrupting was fixed (4370).

Creep debuffs seem to work just fine...and I'm pretty sure FnF DD turrets aren't supposed to have passive MoC...

I don't see what whining about cab pets has to do with Animists...?

Especially when it's pathing/npc interaction that effects every pet class in every realm...


Not sure about the dd-bombers beeing fixed, aswell as the creeping debuffs. We'll need to check that. The lvl50 FnF turrets supposed to be an instant cast (patch lvl 1.65), but Blue "fixed" that with the main pet not attacking. The main pet still stops attacking from time to time (LoS issue?) though. The stealth bug seems to be there aswell. See this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=46677&start=45

Most of the posts are before 2019 though.

Edit: Also note that the AoE bomber dmg has a huge dropoff at small range.

Edit2: dd-bombers seem to be fixed. Creeping debuffs, not sure. Some might even be the other way around. Interrupts on the FnF didnt seem to be that bad either, in 1vs1 atleast. If the interrupts aint that bad, not having insta cast doesnt bother me that much either.
Satiah | Tuthmes | Dendera | Khufu | Nefertete | Dahshur | Nebetah | Neterbaiu

IamKaia
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Postby IamKaia » Nov 10, 2019 18:30

Grahmdal wrote:I'm not 'challenging'...your list basically had one point worth discussing...

As far as the new list, I agree Verdant PBAE variance needs work...and I thought dd-bombers interrupting was fixed (4370).

Creep debuffs seem to work just fine...and I'm pretty sure FnF DD turrets aren't supposed to have passive MoC...

I don't see what whining about cab pets has to do with Animists...?

Especially when it's pathing/npc interaction that effects every pet class in every realm...


edited my earlier post as some of what i put was incorrect after testing.

About my list, it's like your opinion man... If you don't think it's worth discussing, you can have a sit down over there.

As for the cabalist pet point, so i guess it's whining when your class has a pet that does exploity things that other pets can't achieve eh. Ok... :roll:

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Grahmdal
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Postby Grahmdal » Nov 10, 2019 18:48

IamKaia wrote:As for the cabalist pet point, so i guess it's whining when your class has a pet that does exploity things that other pets can't achieve eh. Ok... :roll:


Don't you main an enchanter? :lol:
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GamingIcon
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Postby GamingIcon » Nov 10, 2019 21:25

IamKaia wrote:
Grahmdal wrote:I'm not 'challenging'...your list basically had one point worth discussing...

As far as the new list, I agree Verdant PBAE variance needs work...and I thought dd-bombers interrupting was fixed (4370).

Creep debuffs seem to work just fine...and I'm pretty sure FnF DD turrets aren't supposed to have passive MoC...

I don't see what whining about cab pets has to do with Animists...?

Especially when it's pathing/npc interaction that effects every pet class in every realm...


edited my earlier post as some of what i put was incorrect after testing.

About my list, it's like your opinion man... If you don't think it's worth discussing, you can have a sit down over there.

As for the cabalist pet point, so i guess it's whining when your class has a pet that does exploity things that other pets can't achieve eh. Ok... :roll:


Nothing wrong with having an opinion that's based on facts - to which you were operating under incorrect assumptions.
And as a previous poster has noted, why are you so concerned about cab pets when they are doing exactly as what they were meant to do? That's not exploiting, but then again.. for someone operating under incorrect assumptions and then having an erroneous opinion about how something should work, this is not surprising.

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