Problem here on uth is,
why should i take a savage if i can take a berserker?

berserker has higher damagetier
berserker has charge
berserker has vendo mode
berserker cuts defense of block/evade
berserker has high GR backstyles

a savage has some self buffs, but i need to heal him afterwards
savage has triple or quadhits
savage does(not?) cut defense of block/evade
savage has backstun

so afterall the benefits of a berserker are higher compared to a savage. sad but true

i like a good played svg in grp. He has some other job than the zerkers, he is bad in assist.
He has to freelance and attack targets with no blocker. And he is best in the back together with the warrior killing or just scaring away tanks from the supporter. And he is better than zerk for pet clear.

What is nice is the burst dmg the svg has when he tripple or quadhits, while healer can often heal out steady dmg - even if its heavy dmg - a not so heavy over all but hard burst dmg often kills a target.

edit: And zerker can only deal their max dmg with the back combo from behind, while svg deals quite the same amount from the side, back and not so much less with anytimer.

I don't know, I remember back in agramon where each and every mid group had at least one savage, I remember when we lost fight because rr4 savage managed to 3shot both our cleric. I remember savages killing my caster before DI could react...

what changed?

poplik wrote:I don't know, I remember back in agramon where each and every mid group had at least one savage, I remember when we lost fight because rr4 savage managed to 3shot both our cleric. I remember savages killing my caster before DI could react...

what changed?

Blockrate changed and also multiple hit rate was adjusted. The situation was very different in agramon. With h2h not counting as dual wield even a cleric would block 1/4 of their hits at some point and the class became less and less played.

However I agree with Holsten about the burst damage. Playing a support on alb/hib, it's very annoying to deal with random burst you can get from multiple hits. A zerk will deal more constant damage and in the end, it's quite easier to deal with it. In fact when I still played I was happy that mids stopped inviting savages ^^
But ye now you can't just rely on getting 4 savages + 1 skald in a group to instant kill any first target like most mid groups did 2 years ago.. oh well actually I think it would still work, you just need to not hit a shield

@blue and abydos

how is it implemented here on uth?

does h2h count as a dualwielder or not (i hate neverending rumors)


edit:

"impossible to hit someone who can parry/evade/shield" - This is partially true, I'll explain in detail:
Hand-to-Hand: Despite wielding two weapons, you'll only ever hit with your main hand weapon when styling, what does this mean? It means that hand-to-hand is treated as a single weapon and thusly doesn't give any penalty to block, parry and/or evade.

well this can't be the explanation, because DW and CD works (in a common) way only to hit with a %chance with both weapons

HulkGris said in DOL code h2h is counted as dualweaps, but many rumors on uth said its not^^ maybe thats the explanation why the lwrp of savages is crap xD

Its not a rumor, it just counts as 1hand.

hm why? bug? intended? proofs (of intention?)

well found some threads in old forums that state h2h is counted as dualwield, also Fistwraps

so anyway is here already a bug report or a tracker for this bug?

Magicco wrote:hm why? bug? intended? proofs (of intention?)

well found some threads in old forums that state h2h is counted as dualwield, also Fistwraps

so anyway is here already a bug report or a tracker for this bug?

I always suspected it was treated as a single weapon due to the difficultly in breaking through defence.
Once my template was complete, I went through 3 weeks of RvR and PvE every day without repairing. At the third week, my main hand was at 94% condition, my off-hand was at 100% condition, this pretty much confirmed it for me.

Essentially, the savage is a DPS class that can only DPS against targets that don't have high defence (13/26 classes) and are not guarded. Soloing isn't viable as your self buffs will wipe you out quicker than your opponent ever will.

afaik is that the chance of hitting with your offhand is a fixed percantage
same for triple and quad hits... something like 20% double 15% triple and 5% quad (source daocpedia but can be wrong)

but still it seems to be a hard bug that h2h is not defined as a dual weapon that cuts block n evade

Hedra wrote: multiple hit rate was adjusted.

I remember that, hell I did half of those tests ^^, but those were like few percent I think.

Anyway, no sympathy for savages from me, that's for sure.

poplik wrote:

Hedra wrote: multiple hit rate was adjusted.

I remember that, hell I did half of those tests ^^, but those were like few percent I think.

Anyway, no sympathy for savages from me, that's for sure.

well np, just look at the lwrp of savages...
if there would be the same lwrp of reaver other realms would be happy also

edit. still waiting for a dev answer about the dualwield

pweet wrote:Its not a rumor, it just counts as 1hand.

In DoL source, since 2007, H2H is counted as a dualwielder. Don't know on Uthgard.