Block chance is dex only.

Wulver wrote:Block chance is dex only.

hi,

Where was anything stated to the contrary ?

Comparing Kobold/Troll Warrior you said Dex/Quickness for block chance. It's' a great video, I'm going to show my friend since has never played and is interested.

I think Thane deserves a little better description.

I wouldn't consider it a casual RvR class only, because it implies it's easy to play, while it's the opposite. You have to know when to Guard, when to go 2h and follow the melee train, when to cast, who to interrupt... All that requires a pretty good situational awareness compared to most melee classes. It is however definitely suboptimal in full groups, especially since Midgard doesn't have an easy access to demez. Also it's AoE deserves to be mentioned, as it makes Thane pretty damn good (and fun I would say) during keep fights.

As for PvE, they are pretty strong in bomb groups, which are not that rare on Uthgard (I've mostly leveled in bomb groups). They are also decent solo, for a (half-)melee class.

Finally, Dex is fairly important for Thane as it improves block chance and cast speed, I would say that 10 points is Dex is probably more beneficial than 10 points in Con (which represents about 30 HP only). But more importantly it makes Troll kind of awkward, that huge Str doesn't counterbalance the fact that they have a Bard's weaponskill.

That being said, it's a pretty good video and most certainly helpful to new players.

Wulver wrote:Comparing Kobold/Troll Warrior you said Dex/Quickness for block chance. It's' a great video, I'm going to show my friend since has never played and is interested.

Ah, thanks for the input. btw my friend is the video author, I am just trying to help him out a bit.

Nemi wrote:

Wulver wrote:Comparing Kobold/Troll Warrior you said Dex/Quickness for block chance. It's' a great video, I'm going to show my friend since has never played and is interested.

Ah, thanks for the input. btw my friend is the video author, I am just trying to help him out a bit.

Tell your friend that taking constitution on tanks is useless, you don't get too many hitpoints. Especially on the warrior, what a joke. Also, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind kobold somehow being a better race for savage than a valkyn xD. Exact same damage, only valkyn has much better resists(best resists of all the races). Same thing with thane, why no dex at all? Thane already gets 1 str per level and has a massive strcon buff, so you need 10 dex much more than you need 5 more str, and you're on the hybrid damage table anyway so against some classes you will utilize your lightning more than weapons.

The whole <my kobold warrior blocks sooooo much more than my troll warrior> is also a popular myth. If you look at the block formula, dex doesn't play that huge of a role and most of these myths originate from morons who had their class do something 3-4 or 7times in a row, remembered that time and somehow have it in their mind that it's always like this. In reality it's % based and although you can get lucky on anything a few times in a row, it takes many swings/casts/whatever to get the correct number and it normally ends being the whatever the % formula implies.

Valkyn wasn't even listed as a SB race, and it's clearly superior to kobold.

Valfar wrote:

Nemi wrote:

Wulver wrote:Comparing Kobold/Troll Warrior you said Dex/Quickness for block chance. It's' a great video, I'm going to show my friend since has never played and is interested.

Ah, thanks for the input. btw my friend is the video author, I am just trying to help him out a bit.

what a joke.

Eh, while you have some point, I do not see benefit in sending him comments from rude people

Valfar wrote:The whole <my kobold warrior blocks sooooo much more than my troll warrior> is also a popular myth. If you look at the block formula, dex doesn't play that huge of a role [...]

To give some numbers, about 0.9% of a flat block chance difference between a Kobold and a Troll with capped dex and capped buffs. Slightly better shield weaponskill though, but that's really only useful against classes with Advanced Evade.

Wulver wrote:Comparing Kobold/Troll Warrior you said Dex/Quickness for block chance. It's' a great video, I'm going to show my friend since has never played and is interested.

You are absolutely correct, I must've thought of Evade at the time or something... I will make an annotation. Thanks for letting me know o7

Valfar wrote:Tell your friend that taking constitution on tanks is useless, you don't get too many hitpoints. Especially on the warrior, what a joke. Also, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind kobold somehow being a better race for savage than a valkyn xD. Exact same damage, only valkyn has much better resists(best resists of all the races). Same thing with thane, why no dex at all? Thane already gets 1 str per level and has a massive strcon buff, so you need 10 dex much more than you need 5 more str, and you're on the hybrid damage table anyway so against some classes you will utilize your lightning more than weapons. The whole <my kobold warrior blocks sooooo much more than my troll warrior> is also a popular myth. If you look at the block formula, dex doesn't play that huge of a role and most of these myths originate from morons who had their class do something 3-4 or 7times in a row, remembered that time and somehow have it in their mind that it's always like this. In reality it's % based and although you can get lucky on anything a few times in a row, it takes many swings/casts/whatever to get the correct number and it normally ends being the whatever the % formula implies.

Hi. I'm the guy. So here's my question: If STR doesn't do that much and CON barely adds any hitpoints and DEX plays no role in blocking, where would you say the points are best placed? Empathy? I'm sorry, I'd love to hear your input but I don't quite understand why you're immediately getting so angry? Is the weather in Midgard that bad? As to DEX and blocking. I know it doesn't make a huge difference... about 3% ish which is roughly the same difference Troll has over the Norseman in damage, no? Is that not significant enough to at least mention? Valkyn Savage should be yellow though yes. Not green because even more wasted QUI than the Kobold...

bm01 wrote:I think Thane deserves a little better description.

I wouldn't consider it a casual RvR class only, because it implies it's easy to play, while it's the opposite. You have to know when to Guard, when to go 2h and follow the melee train, when to cast, who to interrupt... All that requires a pretty good situational awareness compared to most melee classes. It is however definitely suboptimal in full groups, especially since Midgard doesn't have an easy access to demez. Also it's AoE deserves to be mentioned, as it makes Thane pretty damn good (and fun I would say) during keep fights.

Finally, Dex is fairly important for Thane as it improves block chance and cast speed, I would say that 10 points is Dex is probably more beneficial than 10 points in Con (which represents about 30 HP only). But more importantly it makes Troll kind of awkward, that huge Str doesn't counterbalance the fact that they have a Bard's weaponskill..

Hey mate. I do not consider "casual" to mean "noob". It just means "not having 8 hours a day of 8v8 8 days a week" So casual as opposed to hardcore. Which is certainly true, as you simply can't play a Thane in any sort of competitive 8v8. I wasn't trying to knock the Thane btw. I think it's a sweet class. Fair enough on the DEX. You make a good point. I'll make an annotation.

bm01 wrote:To give some numbers, about 0.9% of a flat block chance difference between a Kobold and a Troll with capped dex and capped buffs. Slightly better shield weaponskill though, but that's really only useful against classes with Advanced Evade.

Fair enough. I guess my numbers are old? or new? Alright. Anyway, it's a good thing I marked Kobold Warrior as red already

eLdritchD wrote:Hi. I'm the guy. So here's my question: If STR doesn't do that much and CON barely adds any hitpoints and DEX plays no role in blocking, where would you say the points are best placed? Empathy? I'm sorry, I'd love to hear your input but I don't quite understand why you're immediately getting so angry? Is the weather in Midgard that bad? As to DEX and blocking. I know it doesn't make a huge difference... about 3% ish which is roughly the same difference Troll has over the Norseman in damage, no? Is that not significant enough to at least mention? Valkyn Savage should be yellow though yes. Not green because even more wasted QUI than the Kobold...

Quickness is never wasted. Other realms have such things as combat speed debuffs too(styles and spells). You can't calculate these odds assuming the situation will be ideal. Tanks must always aim to get as close as possible to capping swing speed without celerity, because it's something you may or may not have during the fight. Final hitpoints of any class depend much more on the class itself than the constitution, so taking con on tanks is a waste of points. I'm not angry . Most warriors/zerkers I know go for 15str/10qui and on savage you can go 15str/10dex.

Valfar wrote:Final hitpoints of any class depend much more on the class itself than the constitution, so taking con on tanks is a waste of points.

The amount of HP gained by 1 point of Con depends on the class, a Warrior gains more than a Thane for example (but it represents pretty much the same increase in terms of percentage I believe). But the real reason is that, if you're going down, 30 or 40 more HP are unlikely to save you. And your (RvR) group is probably already dead since you're a tank.

I agree with Valfar about Qui, I think it's fairly important and a too often ignored stat. Slam (or any Shield skill for that matter) misses a lot, you need to be able to land it as fast as possible. If I remember correctly some players used to have the lowest Qui possible to maximize the chances of taking down a target in one swing, but I don't know if it's still possible in 1.65, and if you need a second swing that means you would have been better off with some Qui.

In the end, I agree on the 15 Str / 10 Qui for a Warrior that will only play in 8 man groups. But it's not dramatic if you went 10 Str / 10 Con / 10 Dex or something else.

Obviously, you'll hear a lot of different opinions about it

bm01 wrote:There are a few formula out there, the one I'm using comes from DoL server I believe. The thing it shows is that the higher you Dex is, the lesser each point has an impact (probably a weird sentence, sorry); meaning that above a certain amount of Dex (that is relatively easy to attain even as a Troll), it no longer brings much. For a full solo and unbuffed Warrior, Dex is much more important, but since Warriors don't really solo...

I feel like you're trying to describe dex breakpoints which I've been told at least 6 times do not exist on Uthgard?

Fensus wrote:I feel like you're trying to describe dex breakpoints which I've been told at least 6 times do not exist on Uthgard?

I wasn't but looks like my spreadsheet had an error in it Apparently you gain 1% flat block chance every 20 dex (((dex*2)-100)/40), after that I don't know about breakpoints (charplan seems to use them).