Im currently leveling a scout, who is 35 atm.

With the old RA system coming back in - no MOS, see hidden available to assassins, volley costing 14 points and on a 30 min timer

is it worth taking him up to 50??

Thanks

Nope.

why not..
scouts will only change "style"...

dex3, falcon eye 4, mastery of archery 3.

u can make a good damage, and u have stun (that with 30min purge will be purged rarely).


and if u want u can take IP 100% and MOB maybe!

u dont need mos, or volley if u are a good player


i rememebr some really good scout in old times!

Dragoonn wrote:why not..
scouts will only change "style"...

dex3, falcon eye 4, mastery of archery 3.

u can make a good damage, and u have stun (that with 30min purge will be purged rarely).


and if u want u can take IP 100% and MOB maybe!

u dont need mos, or volley if u are a good player


i rememebr some really good scout in old times!

Quote

Holavez

Scouts will suffer the most from old RA. No Buffs, no AoP and shield'n'board against Dodger 3 Assassins with MoS 5 as 8 point RA.

I have played a scout pre DF, pre SI and pre ToA. I tried several different play styles. The only one that worked was full buffed and grouped with another scout and a minstrel ...

People have had it easy for far to long. A scout was extremely playable with OF RAs, just seems everyone forgot how to.

Garad wrote:Scouts will suffer the most from old RA. No Buffs, no AoP and shield'n'board against Dodger 3 Assassins with MoS 5 as 8 point RA.

I have played a scout pre DF, pre SI and pre ToA. I tried several different play styles. The only one that worked was full buffed and grouped with another scout and a minstrel ...

rofl!! soo sad!

Samoth wrote:People have had it easy for far to long. A scout was extremely playable with OF RAs, just seems everyone forgot how to.

Which playstyle you mean?

50 Shield, Brutalize, Crit, Crit, active block?
Any good assassin will strafe like crazy to avoid been blocked.

Or maybe you think about using a low level short stun shield style and hope that the assassin might purge? Works only against complete gimps and these will be grouped anyway.

Or maybe you mean a melee spec? Forget it, before at least purge, MoB 3, IP and dogder 3. However, any venom switching assassin will kill you.

Largest problem will be, that the assassin will see you, but you wont see the assassin anymore. With See Hidden, the assassin have all time to prepare for attack. So, a good assassin will most likley hit with PA, strafe through you and hit you with CD. When you are out of the stun, you have almost lost half of your HP.

Scouts don't get Avoid Pain?

You do get the Rain of X damage RA, which the other Archer classes do not get.

Seems rather arbitrary.

reading all this, gives the impression that stealthers are made for killing other stealthers only...guys, there's a loooot of other victims (or at least targets) for scouts (just like any other class, including stealthers of course)...u may attack tanks, hybrids, casters, supporters...there's just so much variety...why does a scout have to win against ns/sb? they were made to kill especially scouts, hunters, rangers and minstrels...

in a game with such a multitude of classes it's pretty likely that there are some classes which will lose more often against another class than against others...

casters, for instance, (except with pet or near sight) are pretty helpless against snipers for example (not considering high RRs) and be even more helpless against assasins with PA+CD hitting...

tanks, let's say with shield, are a lot better against snipers as well, though rangers have a little advantage here (again: not considering high RR with IP, purge, etc. etc.)

that's what makes a Rock-paper-scissors-game like daoc so interesting...

u gotta accept that...until then u wont have as much fun, as u could have...

edit: it's the same with group play, where tank groups and caster groups and all the inbetweens should be "always win" templates...no fgs!...but this doesn't belong here

Casters without active pet or nearsight:
Animist, Wizard, Theurgist

Ronian wrote:Casters without active pet or nearsight:
Animist, Wizard, Theurgist

so every single eld has NS, every RM has NS too? all the sorcs run with pet just like every menta runs with one? i really don't think so...many dont and the restriction with the pet, was just to make sure no1 says "omg, NS counters snipers"...it was just an example after all...

from max range u can get off like about 4 shots (some 3, some 5, depends on own reaction, bow speed and stuff) (this is only my experience as a potential target for snipers) before some1 attacks u melee (the pet in this case)...and the rest, well for example against hib-casters with stun-nuke-nuke-nuke...u just gotta have good resists and maybe a little luck...but thats a problem for every class against casters...once they have the upperhand u may die pretty fast (without IP, purge, whatever)...

edit: btw: hi ronian, never noticed that it's u actually ...i miss our fights
edit2: if u are the ronian from lyonesse-server

Jezzmin, I'm not sure what you're saying here. You say there are lots of options for stealthers, and then you list a lot of class types that archers are generally bad against. Hybrids are good against archers. Supporters... are never solo so this is a pointless reference. Casters are not going to solo much because of the Assassin zergs that will form with OF RAs.

By the way, no one is concerned about Assassins with OF RAs. They dominated Classic DAoC.

Seyha wrote:Jezzmin, I'm not sure what you're saying here. You say there are lots of options for stealthers, and then you list a lot of class types that archers are generally bad against. Hybrids are good against archers. Supporters... are never solo so this is a pointless reference. Casters are not going to solo much because of the Assassin zergs that will form with OF RAs.

of course every class has a chance of winning against every other class and the possibities for casters, in my example, are only valid, if the caster is really good and has a little luck (except for blue+-ns-casters of course, but then the rock-paper-scissors-argument catches again)

i just dont understand why there's always the comparison between assassins and other stealthers...like hunter/rangers/scouts/minstrels vs. ns/sb/inf...the latter are more or less counter classes...so i wanted to make clear that, in my opinion, there's a lot other victims for snipers, such as the scouts which this thread is about...

Jezzmin wrote:i just dont understand why there's always the comparison between assassins and other stealthers...like hunter/rangers/scouts/minstrels vs. ns/sb/inf...the latter are more or less counter classes...so i wanted to make clear that, in my opinion, there's a lot other victims for snipers, such as the scouts which this thread is about...

You bring up a good point. If Assassins are counter classes for other stealthers, then what class is designed to counter Assassins? Assassins are just as good or better at killing non-stealth classes as archers. They have PA+CD, debuff poisons, dot-spam, Evade 7, and dual-weild. All of these abilities make them much better at killing hybrids (which most non-stealth solos are) than archers. Archers (real archers) are vulnerable to interrupts, snare, debuffs (as they have no debuffs of their own), and without defensive RAs they die quickly in melee.

So why should the Assassin class counter the Archer classes? If anything it should be the other way around.