Well that may count for Hibernia - but still there is the most public raids.

On Alb there is 2 planned Publicraids a week - with pointsystem.
Everyone knows the time to be at dragon and then groups are done and we start.
If we start at 8 we are finished on like 9 or even earlier.
Its just 1 h to go there stand bit round do nothing and thats it XD

If you do a publicraid with /random 100 - well you are doomed

Guildraids for Dragon are in fact even more fast & more efficient than Tajendi I think - at least now due to the huge amount of Respecstones.

I think we need a more efficient way to spread drops after a succesful raid. With new treasurer commands that could be possible. That will lower the mess of dealing out a mass of drops to multiple players.

A better way to spread drops?
Well I like this point system & random 100 system due to the fact it's fairest method that can be done.

For a while I played AION on a freeshard.
Rolling system was quite bugged/not implemented and some stuff wasn't tradeable after pickup + every noob around was able to steal loot if he was fast...
There was rolling system for groups and alliances but let 50 ppl in a bg roll or pass and they get untradeable item they can't even use. That didn't work well every time - some guy always mess it up. If someone didnt pass or roll due to afk, the loot just remained in the dead corpse and no one could pick it up at all XD

In instances it was quite ok to manage loot but on big raids... + drops were so superrare that most ppl in guild wore crap (and due to this being very keen on all stuff).
The leaders had to make votings on who would get which items with neverending lists in forums for activity, participation & current equip
But there it didnt stop...The single guilds had to fight against each other for bossraids... no kind of cooperation!
Ppl had to camp respawn-WINDOWS of like 12h and if the boss was up you had like 1 min to go there or it was already lost XD

=> After this experience for me the system here works fine XD
I doubt that the problem for raids is the roll afterwards.
I never saw a raidleader scamming the participants!
Thats what I rly appreciate here!
=> Never change a running system


But - in case u want to change something in Tajendi with drops and stuff:
Make all drops quest items! Like e.g. you get the quest: Kill Hungry one!!! You kill it - and afterwards you can choose the item you need from him as a reward.
The point there is:
1. You can only get this drops once - so if the armor/weapon wears down someday you don't have a chance of getting it again.
2. Make the questrewards untradeable.

Not the worst solution I think.

maybe an automatic system would be nice to read out the rolls of ppl and sort it so that the raidleader just ve to look at the table I dont think there is a need of changing comming /roll 100 principles

pweet wrote:maybe an automatic system would be nice to read out the rolls of ppl and sort it so that the raidleader just ve to look at the table I dont think there is a need of changing comming /roll 100 principles

Exactly that was my intention

That would be a really nice change. We were just discussing something like that yesterday in alliance.

Blue, observations to consider:

Blue wrote:Tajendi devalues many items and drops on Uthgard same applies to spell crafting at all. This was a mistake. The focus should move back from instanced Tajendi raids (6 players) to realm organized boss raids.

Agreed, but the differences are not irreconcilable with classic daoc. The highest-end classic items have imbue values equal to 40 (Flawless Hauberk, Dragon Bone, Dragonscale). Taj items have an average imbue of 40

Code: Select all

( Aegis, Asyut, Akbar, Alifa, Arctic, Ancient Chain, Acherontic Ring, Befana Seal, Char'esh, Guardianship, Heart, Ravager's, Scales, Suketh, Tear)
Avg = 39.6; Range 29-46.5

. It is not inconceivable to have these items in your re-creation of classic daoc. The charges/debuffs/procs, however, are another matter

Blue wrote:As someone said before, its easy to build all cap templates with Tajendi items. This is not what I want to see here. There must be compromises in templates.

The ability to cap with ease has more to do with class than items. Some classes simply have fewer stat/spec/power lines to consider. To make EVERY class compromise something in his template would require you trim classic items too. Removing Taj items disproportionately hurts some classes more than others. It might seem counter-intuitive, but Taj items actually INCREASE class balance allowing tougher templates to be made possible.

Oh and a simple solution:

1. Abolish the Tajendi zones.

2. Move Taj loot tables to dragon/legion/gk/evern/giant as was done with megalodon

3. Please don't destroy our templates

The compromise that really must be struck is between a return to classic gameplay (which this solution provides) and the acceptance of custom loot (which has already been introduced, and as one said before, cannot be undone in a completely fair way).

Also consider:

Taking a hardline approach to content and "classic ideology" at this point is hypocritical and might not be in the best interest of balance.

Mythic and DAOC were not infallible circa 1.69. Nostalgia has a way of glossing over flaws. In fact, if we were all playing a perfect replica of 1.69, there'd still be just as many complaints... I think the majority of the community wants the look and feel of classic DAOC, but is also willing to recognize that game's mistakes and accept custom solutions.

flow wrote:Oh and a simple solution:

1. Abolish the Tajendi zones.

2. Move Taj loot tables to dragon/legion/gk/evern/giant as was done with megalodon

3. Please don't destroy our templates

I have to agree with that. At most, leave the tajendi zones as an area where you can do xp quests, sort of like instances on live servers, but without drops - move those to dragon and legion. One or two tajendi items/raid wouldn't be overpowered. The worst thing that can happen is there'll be an abundance of dragon/legion raids.

Hi,

As the main Hibernia 'public random 100' dragon raid organiser I would like to say my thoughts that matter.

First of all the initial argument of too many drops let's trim them, is laughable.
I don't know what's the rules in Albion, however from the last 20 or so raids I organised got 3 items (2 stones. 1 shield). However I still don't have a problem to sort out not 25 but 50 items, even if my chances to roll and get something are pretty rubbish.
I still give away ALL the items (incl salvage) to every single person on the list. Some times I'm left on my own at the end with 1-2 salvage items but that's rare nowadays.

Why I do it, because is fun and we do have a good laugh. Which many times continues with the idea to do a relic raid with the bg after we finish off the Dragon. Hence all the wipes we had on the relic keeps on prime time. Because we are not serious. Just go there for a laugh. When we were serious, we did a pretty good job
(HAIL MAIURUS).

Second regarding Tajendi & items. Many dragon items are way better than the Tajendi ones. Tbh the items in Taj that actually worth can be counted on two hands max and are very rare to get, hence their prices.
Which some times of course they are needed, due to the fact an RR3 or RR4 level 50 champ (talking from my experience, add your classes etc), can't compete with the majority of RR10 people in the frontiers. Not talking about solo but 8v8 or more.
Given the small server population, and the pretty limited new blood coming into the server, adding the fact that some play here for 5y+, is difficult. Solution to be 16 lowbies vs 8 high RR, are classed as joke because we all know what's the community mentality on that matter.

Third templates. You don't need Taj items to make templates. The problem with many templates people sending me to do, is that they want to have charge in every single item, and mainly the DF items used on them, have rubbish imbue points (don't change it). Making some items from Taj pretty mandatory.
If they use normal gear that drop around, that's isn't an issue to make a template pretty straight forward.
Few classes excluded like Warden or Champ, or hybrid weapon tanks. (Hibernia, never played on other realms).

For example I use the Forlorn torso from Legion (tbh the only worthy item except jewellery it drops). Because the superior Ancient Scale from Taj is very difficult to fit without multiple mp crafted items (and comes at 5 times the price !!).
Yes it has more imbue points, but seriously, if you want to use it, you need to get the other Taj2 items (hence the farming) too to sort out. Also I use the Qadeshian Iceblade (Befana), isn't the best weapon (Level 50 not 51), but looks better than the Long Sword from the dragon (which was the alternative) and at least has a useful proc. With the haste pots, not counting druids/warden haste, who needs a weapon that provides haste at when gets the chance to go off?


Fourth, many items drop from Legion & Dragon are rubbish too, and you can see which ones, based on how many people use them.
As many items from Taj are rubbish and make no sense. Like the pierce weapon that gives Crit Strike bonus. 99.99% of the people who's this weapon intended too, use crafted weapon. Or the shields (oath is ok), or the LWs. Dragon or Legion drops are far superior. Also many people use a weapon from Taj because of their nice skins. And please do something on the dragon loot skins. If they meant to be special, make them to look cool too.

Fifth, there is solution for more rvr. Just sort out the Princes, HL and Legion loot to make bit better and competitive, and you will see how many are going to try to get keeps. You saw how many keep taking raids took place the first few days when the Legion was dropping more stones (and is easier than the dragon to kill). I even saw many keeps being defended too.


And please don't get the axe and start chopping things without consideration. Trying to be 'classic' isn't the best solution. For 2002 classic DAOC was awesome, compared that the next best game was UO. But today is not. Take out Tajendi, remove it's items, put OF RAs in and then we will see who still be here. More people will complain about emptiness in the frontiers then.

Closing (since I wrote all the above), a wishful thought to take into consideration. Make small grp and solo rvr viable. How? Don't provide RP if a solo player is killed by more than 2, or +2 over the other grp up to 6v8 (count the buffs too on that). More 'visible' will go to rvr then than stealthers. Because that's why people have stealthers. They can't solo.

Fediuld wrote:Second regarding Tajendi & items. Many dragon items are way better than the Tajendi ones.

Like which ones ?

If Taj werent better than other Items, noone d pay that much money for it. It is obvious that those drops are better than others, just look at the cloak. Almost ALL proper temps are using it... Just OP in comparison to other drops. Its kind of ignorant not seeing that those drops are better than classic daoc versions.
My 2 cents

Lemonjelly wrote:

Fediuld wrote:Second regarding Tajendi & items. Many dragon items are way better than the Tajendi ones.

Like which ones ?

The two rings, cloth cap and plate chest for example.

There is no debate that Taj items are better than classic loot. The absolute best classic drops are only about as good as an average item from Tajendi regarding imbue. The argument should center around Blue's opinion on these two points:

Tajendi instancing distracts from classic boss raiding - something he doesn't want.

Certain Tajendi items allow players to make perfect, fully capped templates - something he doesn't want.


I agree with him on the first point. Tajendi is a distraction from classic raiding which is bad for a server which tries to serve up classic daocin'

I think his idea that templates should always be a compromise and should never completely cap is misguided. Perfect templates have been a part of classic daoc from the time spellcrafting was first introduced. Some classes are able to easily cap all stats/specs with very cheap, classic loot. These classes will never have to compromise dmg, hp, pow, etc. with or without tajendi items. Other classes would. There are several classes which are impossible to perfectly template without custom items from taj.

The best argument against taj items is that they are too easy to farm, and create an "easy mode" environment the uthgard staff don't want. This is easily fixed by ending instancing and moving the loot to harder bosses with actual respawn timers (dragon, legion). The amount of taj items entering the economy every day will quickly drop. Diluting the drop pools of these mobs with taj loot, some of which has no demand, will also make obtaining classic good gear more challenging. Surely the staff likes that idea ^^

The best argument against Taj Items is that it has nothing to do with daoc at all.