Which just proves the lack of objective thinking present in most of the population.

But in the grand scheme of thing, with of ras and on the population level, the gap will only get bigger because now you need to play even less classes then before to be able to compete and in effect earn rps to be higher rr.

Enjoy!

Jezzmin wrote:exactly, and that's why old RA's narrow the gap...because purge for instance is not as powerful anymore...the same with others...while old RAs had a rather linear increase (e.g. 15% det per level) it has a rather cubic or at least no linear increase here (1% 1st level, 4% 2nd level etc.)...so if having level 5 det with old RAs is much "less better" compared to eth level than in new RAs (where 5th level gives major increase compared to 4th)...and that's just some examples...

That is correct, but as I said, you can't simply compare numbers. In OF the RAs are much more powerfull, so it doesn't matter that OF Det 5 is worse than NF Det 5, becouse OF Det 5 is still the best you can get when OF RAs are implemented.

It's just a matter of identifying what the BEST is in each setting, and then seeing what it takes you to get there, or to get somewhere in between. It's this "in between" part where the RR gap is located, and this part practically doesn't exist in OF RAs. For example: You either spend a ****** of points getting IP with the prerequisites, or you don't. It's 1 or zero. As compared to NF RA's where it would be 1 vs maybe 0.4 (IP1).

and at nf ras ther is first aid ra (who actualy taking that ra for example) which heal abit part of hp which has same points on of ras mabe cheaper ther (5-10-15 at nf 3-6-9 at of) and people wana get ip on nf for 5-10-15 points to percent base and for of ther is only ne ip 14 for none tanks 4 or 6 for tanks (and a preq for first aid 2) in total point of 9+4 for tanks 13 points 23 for none tanks for a value of %100 fill

compare them you can buy 5 or 15 point ip %25 or %50 hp fill for 15 mins
or 23 point %100 hp fill for 30 mins and a bonus 400-600 hp none combat heal for 10 mins
i will prefer second one couse ther is a secondary chance to heal if i can manage to kite abit back which people only think insta ones.

Nymeros wrote:That is correct, but as I said, you can't simply compare numbers. In OF the RAs are much more powerfull, so it doesn't matter that OF Det 5 is worse than NF Det 5, becouse OF Det 5 is still the best you can get when OF RAs are implemented.

I never compared New and Old RAs directly..I compared the difference and the cost for upgrading from det 4 to 5 (examplary)...and with old RAs the difference is not worth "so much" as in new RAs, so these lot of points doesn't influence balance very much...

It's just a matter of identifying what the BEST is in each setting, and then seeing what it takes you to get there, or to get somewhere in between. It's this "in between" part where the RR gap is located, and this part practically doesn't exist in OF RAs. For example: You either spend a [I am a little bunny and like flowers] of points getting IP with the prerequisites, or you don't. It's 1 or zero. As compared to NF RA's where it would be 1 vs maybe 0.4 (IP1).

I get your point, but I guess as soon as a player is out of thid with 4L2 he can afford all his preferred RAs, be it MoC, IP, purge + det or whatever...and for the higher RRs: if you are a high RR-player it should be easy to afford a RA-respec, so the inbetween wont be so bad...u just skill some gap-filling RAs which dont take so many points and when he thinsk "wow, now i can finally have purge, ip, mopain4 AND det5", he'll respec and lessen the effects of the gap...

btw: the gap-effect was the same with new RAs...who cared about IP1? It's just not really a big deal and getting IP2 or 3 again meant having to wait for a whole RR or more...

Well some people cared, I admit there probably aren't many, but there's also SoS1, MoC1, etc...

But more important than that is the freedom to *choose*, and that's missing. First you go "well why should anyone get IP1" and the next thing you know we have Purge for 4 points for tanks and 10 points for everyone else.

Nymeros wrote:Well some people cared, I admit there probably aren't many, but there's also SoS1, MoC1, etc...

But more important than that is the freedom to *choose*, and that's missing. First you go "well why should anyone get IP1" and the next thing you know we have Purge for 4 points for tanks and 10 points for everyone else.

luckily that goes for any realm and any player so concerning the high-low-rr-discussion, that actual lead this thread so much off topic, that has no effect...enough examples have been given to more or less prove, that old RAs are a trifle better for low RR players...which is good, as these make the mass of currently not RRing players and thus may help them joining rvr without the fear of being killed again and again by a higher rr player (which is logical but should not be a win-guarantee)...

I'm not following. O.o

I only agreed that IP1 isn't that much desired, but everything else still stands. By pure math NF RAs have a lower high-low RR gap. The freedom to chose part was just a slight digression.

Not to mention that there'll be no Thid in OF, making that gap even more difficult to overcome.

zenobya wrote:and having preq on most used ras actualy make players use less ra dependent chars.

Oh definitely. I bet all healers/clerics/druids/bards will be absolutely delighted at having to throw away 10 points on a near-useless passive before they can spec MOTA or any other decent RA.

burst dd dmg with aug acuity3 ftw

but i got no start charisma so i don't mind getting some more Might be some extra power also

while aug acuity is nearly useless, it does help support classes.

1) larger power pool
2) larger concentration pool (or at least it worked on live)

of course the benefit is marginal at best and a huge waste of points, but its not entirely uselss.

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my guild decided that if old ras actually happen and they put in prenerf VP we are going to cheese it up. minst, cler, cler, 5 wiz. sos, vp, and go afk for 30 min or camp and pbae a keep.

hopefully they wont put in the nerfed VP.

Thus the cheese wars have begun.

Surely this has come up, but anyway:

Cleric
Cleric
Minstrel
Paladin
Sorc
Theurg
Merc
Merc

Not a big fan of Armsman personally, slow 2h weapons tend not to work well vs. guard (am assuming we are talking 8vs8, not zerg farming). Two mercs can do some serious damage, while you have excellent interrupt with sorc, minstrel and theurg. Paladin for endu (mercs), backup rezz and guard. The most flexible and 8vs8 friendly setup, imho. Works well on lower RR as well (as opposed to a caster group, which will rely heavily on MOC, dmg RAs and experience with kiting).

major advantage of arms is, that they dont go down so fast...there's groups in 8v8, which pick on light tanks to knock out enemies dds and thus be in advantage...this is, where hybrid-polearms with shield survive much longer due to plate and shield...also arms almost always have slam, which many mercs dont have...so at least one arms in such a group might be pretty useful i guess...

I'd btw change one cleric for a friar with at least yellow resist buffs...both heat and cold a pretty common for enemy casters and friar's can join the assist train as well as do some healing, if they are specced right...of course 2 clerics heal a lot better and have 2 BoFs, but I really think, that friars are useful as well

however, we will see...when old RAs arrive

I would suggest 2 setups, a melee and a ranged one:

sorc
cleric
cleric
armsman(instead of pala, yes ppl will have to be using endupots, but still better than having a pally stand around rooted for 40 seconds)
theurg
cabby
merc
merc

or
sorc(mind)
cleric(rej)
cleric(ench)
theurg/minstrel
cabby(matter)
cabby(spirit)
sorc(body)
sorc(bispec/body)

A little healfriendly setup that is going to require much less heal than usual due to 100% moc^^.

Jezzmin wrote:major advantage of arms is, that they dont go down so fast...there's groups in 8v8, which pick on light tanks to knock out enemies dds and thus be in advantage...this is, where hybrid-polearms with shield survive much longer due to plate and shield...also arms almost always have slam, which many mercs dont have...so at least one arms in such a group might be pretty useful i guess...

I'd btw change one cleric for a friar with at least yellow resist buffs...both heat and cold a pretty common for enemy casters and friar's can join the assist train as well as do some healing, if they are specced right...of course 2 clerics heal a lot better and have 2 BoFs, but I really think, that friars are useful as well

however, we will see...when old RAs arrive

Cleric is a full-time job in an alb group - saying you can replace one with a friar, who heals less and supposedly joins the AT on occasion doesnt make any sense whatsoever. While I do see some benefit in having the elemental resists, the overall gain is minimal compared to a second bof/group instant/buff shear imho. If need be, the pally has to switch in a resit chant, and enchs debuff your resists into oblivion any way. So we are really only talking about runemasters with 15% debuff, where you *might* notice a little less dmg. But with OF, I am guessing that Mid groups will run almost exclusively with a tank-n-span setup (2 healer, shaman, skald, warr, zerk zerk, savage), so again, BOF makes more sense.