Blitze wrote:removing the stat buffs would help the underperforming classes a little and make everyones life easier if they just wanted to have a casual few hours of solo play without needed stupid barrels.

I beg a differ.

What would help certain underperforming classes is a little bit of common sense from the side of the staff.

Besides, why should the whole server play casually just because you like to?

I wasn't complaining about it. I stand corrected regarding their implementation.

Also, there weren't as many buffbots back then as you think. Not everyone had the money to run two accounts/have a computer that could run two accounts at the same time. As computer technology improved, so did the amount of people with 2nd accounts. I also think potions were alot harder to make back then.

But I guess this game is 8-9 years old, so some things will change, we just have to roll with it

Or we can force ppl not to have pots/charges.

Yes i agree that the staff could help out alot with the underperforming classes. (i am not saying buff friars/warden/thanes etc to livelike) but maybe giving them some of their minor buffs that wouldnt outbalance them in other areas (e.g. make End redux a group spell)

but in terms of casual RvR its obvious no one should have to play that way. And the more serious players are rewarded with RRs.

however i hate having to go and buy potions before i go out and RvR. i mean it makes no sense to me. Yet if i wanna solo i need potions to compete, that is one of many advantages that Thidranki has over emain, no (or hardly any) buffpotters.

it would be easier & faster to jump in / jump out of RvR without them.... also would reduce the negative effect of dying cos u wouldnt need to rebuff (as if 7min port time wasnt enough of a negative)

not that i wanna derail the topic even more.... all i can see now is that OF RA's do nothing to improve my friars insignificant group utility and kill my reavers chance to find a group

i am probly one of many people that voted for OF RAs just to get rid of Viper and IP/PD rangers.

Blitze wrote:i am probly one of many people that voted for OF RAs just to get rid of Viper and IP/PD rangers.

I'm glad that finally at least some of them see what a stupid thing they did.

Mistake.... maybe, maybe not: you cant get anything for free. I will miss my Friars rr5, but glad to be rid of Static tempest.

Pros
loss of Viper and Vanish
& PD/IP rangers
and no active RA dump every inc.
Difference between mid and high RRs is reduced a little due to dimished returns of passive abilitys e.g. above rank3.

Cons
Now Nearsight will become even more nasty (cept to hib grps maybe)
and the couple of Hybrids that did get RvR groups --> wont
Albion will probably run without a paladin, lol.

... i am sure the staff can make alterations to the Old Ras if they arnt working....
a Cure NS, and reduced Det for hybrids seem stupid not to include.

Blitze wrote:Mistake.... maybe, maybe not: you cant get anything for free. I will miss my Friars rr5, but glad to be rid of Static tempest.

Pros
loss of Viper and Vanish
& PD/IP rangers
and no active RA dump every inc.
Difference between mid and high RRs is reduced a little due to dimished returns of passive abilitys e.g. above rank3.

Cons
Now Nearsight will become even more nasty (cept to hib grps maybe)
and the couple of Hybrids that did get RvR groups --> wont
Albion will probably run without a paladin, lol.

... i am sure the staff can make alterations to the Old Ras if they arnt working....
a Cure NS, and reduced Det for hybrids seem stupid not to include.

Removing Charge, Viper and tuning down AOG would do it for me. PD I don't find a problem, considering I often see casters getting 2shotted by Vendo'd zerkers and most casters don't even have it except high RR theurgs. I can imagine it being a nuissance on rangers and the like though.

I never quite got why people would state these RAs would narrow the difference between high and low RR since you're spending quite some ra points on, sometimes, totally useless prerequisites and high RRs can have all the goodies. Goodies with a longer timer yes but they're way too strong and the good/high grps won't need them for your average pug anyway.

Ah well another post in vain I guess since every rational arguement can just be swepped away with "lulz it's not classic'.

the gap is smaller in OF between the high and low RR because the most influential RAs can be purchased in OF with less points, and taking RAs to higher levels in OF returns less bonus for the points spent.

I don't remember the gap between high and low rr being any easier in OF with old RAs. If anything it was worse. But how much of that was population dynamics and how much was the atual abilities is up for debate. Way back then there were a lot of casual players in terrible gear just feeding RPs to the more hardcore players. By the time new RAs had come in, many of those casual players were long gone.

What I do remember from old RAs was the stupidity of realm inequality:

hib groups running with 2 group purges, plus individual purges.
mid groups running with 2 PRs
alb groups runnign with 2 BOFs and SOS.

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and of course dodger making high rr assassins being nearly unkillable.

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but back to setups, id say standard alb setup, but HO casters, Highlander clerics, and avalonian tanks. purely for the lulz.

the common wisdom on every server I played during OF was that around RR5-6 your toon came into their own and could compete just fine.


The same conventional wisom added about 3 realm levels to that for NF.


Think about DET5+purge and the minimum damage RAs for a tank. In OF thats RR5. In NF youre RR6 before you've got instant purge and det5 by themselves. But it gets better, if you happen to have another 1.5 realm levels in points to toss at RAs you can get your instant purge on a 5 minute timer! and the rich get richer....

The RR gap is larger with OF, anyone with at least some math background should be able to see that. It's not just about the cost of the RA's, it's also about their relative power (compared to NF) vs cost. Instant Purge on a 5 minute timer isn't the same as instant Purge on a 30 minute timer, it's six times more powerful.

Not to mention different RA costs for different classes and prerequisites.

Nymeros wrote:The RR gap is larger with OF, anyone with at least some math background should be able to see that. It's not just about the cost of the RA's, it's also about their relative power (compared to NF) vs cost. Instant Purge on a 5 minute timer isn't the same as instant Purge on a 30 minute timer, it's six times more powerful.

exactly, and that's why old RA's narrow the gap...because purge for instance is not as powerful anymore...the same with others...while old RAs had a rather linear increase (e.g. 15% det per level) it has a rather cubic or at least no linear increase here (1% 1st level, 4% 2nd level etc.)...so if having level 5 det with old RAs is much "less better" compared to eth level than in new RAs (where 5th level gives major increase compared to 4th)...and that's just some examples...

Nothing will change RR wise with OF RAs.

Neither will the RR gap get smaller, nor will the high RR ppl get weaker.

If anything some RAs will be imba, and goin to lvl5 with passive RAs will just not be worth it if you dont have points to burn...

Isn't it kinda counterproductive to "lessen the gap" (read: "attempt to gimp high rr ppl") because wont you be high RR in the future?

and having preq on most used ras actualy make players use less ra dependent chars.

for example at nf ras mercenary having det 5 m.o.pain 4 purge 2 for a total of 69 points at 7l9
and for example on of he can get det 5 purge dex 2(preq) m.o.pain 4 for a total of 52 points at 6l2
he will lose short purge yet he can get more realm points to spend

also most pasive atribute incresing ras will drop on power
ex: dex 3 gives 22 dex at nf 18 at of
and even you can get some silly ras if you want to(example regeneration)

this is even beter for caster side
most ras at of need aquity 2-3 for preq which increases casters power pool as well as magic dps.

ex: a sorc having moc 2 purge 2 dex 4 sere3 mcl2 need 75 points with nf ras
for of having aqui 3(preq) sere 3 moc mcl2 dex 4 purge for 73 points timers will be long but ras nearly same(or beter on moc part)

most people whine for we want nf ras couse they are balanced..
actualy they are less balanced then of ras in power comparison and they still want same ras on every realm...
why you need same ras --are tehy same classes that you are competing against(i tought utgard is a rvr based server insted pvp)

and for lov rr high rr comparison of ras has more balanced then nf ones
a lov rr tank can get det 5 for 22 points for full effect at rr3l2 and even he can get %15 less value det for 12 points which is not a big handicap for lov rr chars but for nf it goes as mentioned above the post.

yes hybrids might loose many benefits fom nf ras yet they wont be useles as you think(it is not that they will be wanted in groups couse msot poeple will still want fotme classes over them) couse on the oposite side the enemy will lose sometihng for that part as well.

if i wana solo with my friar and met a skald on rvr map(will be hard to find a skald solo not mentining being zerged on the way) skald wont use sos to run away anymore or i cant use static to heal myself up or get det for geitng lover cc duration which might make fights go in a difrent way
that is why i voted of ras.

@ zenobya

your written expression is pretty weird, but the content is just exactly what I thought as well...

word!