Jezzmin wrote:you also miss out the resistance chants...in old RA times caster grps were much betterthan in our current setup, which means there might be more caster grps again...

Well, charge removal will be great for caster group.
But don't forget that there will be no more BoF on short timer, no more PD, no more MoF, no more DI. This will hurt caster setup a lot.

old ra's = no paladin,reaver,friar,champ,thane,warden,vw in any decent rvr grp. It has only been different on live servers because the average knowledge and skill was much lower.

Nef Melody wrote:old ra's = no paladin,reaver,friar,champ,thane,warden,vw in any decent rvr grp. It has only been different on live servers because the average knowledge and skill was much lower.

that's right. They will be obsolete without determination in 8v8/zerg.

Nef Melody wrote:old ra's = no paladin,reaver,friar,champ,thane,warden,vw in any decent rvr grp. It has only been different on live servers because the average knowledge and skill was much lower.

This... On live people was happy to fill a group with 1 healer, 1 shaman and some speed (rm/skald), rest didn't matter, people rolled out anyway. Because the deeper analyses of group optimization was kept on elite groups.
Also CC was broken more often than not, so didn't matter if people got CC'd in a fight.

This was why groups like Rel Por could handle 5 fg's at a time. They fought crap setups, in crap gear, with low RR (and also lvl), without knowledge of positioning, without voice chat, not using assist. They knew how to CC properly, kite back to begin with, and push when the groups they fought had overextended, and they had both voice chat and some deep knowledge of how to play the game.


Edit: Should add, that the point is that this is the flaw of moving backwards in a game this old, people have knowledge and they know what will be good/bad with the new (old) "patch".

Spivo2 wrote:This was why groups like Rel Por ...

Need to watch the nietx movies again! Didnt see them for years and I remember that I really enjoyed them

And yes, back then it was way easier to handle larger amounts of enemies with 8 people. But watching old movies you can see that even the best groups back then played very poorly compared to the good groups nowadays. Nontheless you had to be picky regarding class choices back then as well if you wanted to compete on a high level, but there were always the daily zergs and everyone was welcome there.

Plok wrote:Rather put in a armsmen than a paladin. With old ra's Paladin's become useless in groups. Grab some endu pots from housing group a armsmen and then move out

This. Back on Tristan in OF, we never used paladins in our melee setups, only arms and mercs. Paladins always got CCd out too much (back then there was no demez). No det = no group. Just get some endo pots and move on.

I dont believe for one sec the active daoc crowd is better in anyway then the old good guilds. I'm sorry but perfect timing of clicking hotbars for RA efficiency does not compute. They used to not care about perfect setups because you dont need perfect setups to win video games. That thought process came from WoW crowd and perfect pve raid groups.

Corstaad wrote:I dont believe for one sec the active daoc crowd is better in anyway then the old good guilds. I'm sorry but perfect timing of clicking hotbars for RA efficiency does not compute. They used to not care about perfect setups because you dont need perfect setups to win video games. That thought process came from WoW crowd and perfect pve raid groups.

Most competitive grps run with members that played on live in "those old good guilds" and no even back in the days the good guilds ran fotm setup and that was way before WoW.
Prime is more or less a live guild, Requiem has also mostly members that played back in the days 8vs8, even though most of us are playing worse now than back then when we had more time to waste for video games^^

Its a old game we've figured out all the "perfect" setups and the reality is its just players playing together for a extended amount of time. Roll a pally with old ra's who cares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrD2JtNpUw4

Corstaad wrote:Its a old game we've figured out all the "perfect" setups and the reality is its just players playing together for a extended amount of time. Roll a pally with old ra's who cares.

The paladin player cares because he doesn't get grps

Exactly. Paldadin players will have to rely on friends inviting them to groups, because only desperate pugs will take them other wise, and desperate pugs aren't going to win other than killing solos and smallmans. Paladin just does not bring enough to the group, because it can be CC'd out too easily. A merc or armsman will do more damage and get back in the fight more quickly.

casters/supports dont have DET as well, they are out of grps too?

Ilerget wrote:casters/supports dont have DET as well, they are out of grps too?

they offer 10 times more utility/damage than a paladin

oh only damage counts, is clear now