bawww wrote:Generally 2h paladin is the best choice
On Uthgard's flawed version of daoc it sadly makes no sense playing anything but a 44thrust paladin due to a number of factors.

Which factors? There is no bugs related to 2h on Uthgard.
The only bug is that there is no defence penetration from Weaponskill (where there should be). This means that on live server, a Warrior with 2000 ws using a 2h will reduce the chance of blocking/parrying/evading of the opponent due to his high ws, where on UTH, if you have 40% chance of blocking, his ws wont matter, you ll just have a flat 40% whoever is attacking you, and this works for both 1h and 2h, dual wield etc.
This has been erroneously translated as the "uthgard 2h bug" since obv those who are gona take more penalty from this are 2h tanks. Why? cos a 1h tank will have his own shield and will benefit from the bug himself, a dual wielder will always halve the shield block rate cos the natural bonus dw>shield, so as a dual wielder you wont be blocked that much anyway, and whats left is the 2h, which is gona be blocked/evaded A LOT on this server (not parried that much since 2h>parry).
We are talking about a paladin which is gona use 2h only from the back (or side) and only for snare purpuses, so this bug its not gona affect it. Also the paladin has low ws anyway, so would not be too much of a difference from the live server.

skdante wrote:1) the snare duration of thrust > snare duration of 2 handed.
2) shield on you all the time. you dont go 2 handed while you guard so you dont guard.... and imagine the usuall assist train of hibs and mids with 3 atleast melee that hits your poor cleric or sorc or theu and you snare ofc with the 2 hander... i dont think so.... because you not guard this way so you either guard or snare not both.but the thrust spec can snare and guard giving alot more protection.
3)i can show you the majority of paladin players that spam styles tring to do dmg forgeting their main part and role in the grp...that is to guard snare slam etc .imagine now the same paladins that have a 2 hander also ... i can see them in the assist train spamming styles with 2 hand along side with the mercs...
4) ppt timer... 2 hand on ppt is really bad you know ... or you dont know?
the second reason from my expirience in the battlefield of rvr is the most important . 2 hybrid paladin spec is for soloers can be grp spec but it will never be as good as thrust spec .and eddie if you dont like my english read something else dude peace.

1) more snare duration? thats an excellent point, i wont even bother to check if its true and how much difference there is

2) You said yourself that 1 button pressing doesnt matter, we are not talking with noobs -weapon switch is easy- well then, its a simple 3 button pressing task for you: button1: switch to 2h - button2: snare style - button 3: switch to 1h, how much time do you need to do so? thats how much time you healer will be unprotected (probably no swings from the opponent if i am using it).
If your cleric has 3 tanks on it, he is probably dead anyway if you cannot stun them, i rlly doubt you are gona save him by snaring all of them with a total of 6 styles, But still you can do the same by switching, and keeping him guarded switching back to shiled during the time you cant swing. Its 3 button press every snare, and you healer has always guard

3) well you can also go melee with your cleric if you are stupid enough, in fact Midgards healers always go around with their mighty 2h instead of healing, the DPS temptation is too high

4) 2 swings with the fastest 1h thrust, hits slower then a single hit with the fastest 2h, in fact, you cannot go faster then 1,5 seconds (speed cap) this means that at best you can land 2 styles in 3seconds with a 1hander, if you get a fast 2h you can definetly swing faster then that. Also, everytime you miss with thrust you have to start over from the first style of the combo.

Example:
1h: hit - miss(pbt) - hit - hit (snare). You needed 4,5 seconds from the first swing to snare a target if you were swinging at 1,5 (cap)
2h: lets say we swing at 2,5 (but im pretty sure you can go faster with a theu buff and a fast 2h)
here its the worst case possibile: miss (pbt) - hit (snare). You took 2,5 seconds to snare.

So, my friend, against Pbt 2h>1h if you wanna snare. I didnt mention this since i dont think its even relevant, but if you really think its important, here you go. What are you gona say now? That my math has proven this but your experience says that 2styles thrust are better to pierce ptb? Well your experience is flawed

sorry eddie but you seem you dont understand what ever i wrote so i can not write nothing more than i wrote above your post and your example still shows that you are not expirienced playing rvr with a paladin.
what ever you say in uthgard thrust paladin 44> all other specs always talking about grp rvr.

Ah, wtf you talking about?

Best pala is an ava pala with 2h trust spec!

you have a chance to block!
you have a chance to parry!
you have a chance to crit!
you have a chance to stun!
you have a chance to snare!
you have your chants, so use em!

...

unfortunately there is no chance youll get a group in emain!

Eddie wrote:

bawww wrote:Generally 2h paladin is the best choice
On Uthgard's flawed version of daoc it sadly makes no sense playing anything but a 44thrust paladin due to a number of factors.

~irrelevant banter~

Why would you want to run a 2h paladin on a server where paladins don't have celerity and get out of endurance after sprinting for 2 seconds and switching 3 or more chants constantly? I don't care about "2h bug", I'm talking about uthgard patch setting and bs that comes with it. Also have fun hitting positionals with 2h and no celerity on a server where melee mechanics are retarded because of the "out of view" bs. Sure you can get used to it, but you're still gonna get out of view every now and then.

in the 2h vs hybrid vs s/s argument:

1) full 2h is stupid for grouped play because shield is OPed on uthgard. a good gaurd tank can negate an entire zerker train. for solo, slam is nice, but i suppost if you lag your side styles you can do jsut fine as pure 2h.

2) true hybrid specs (39ish 2h, 42 shield, 44 chants, 29 slash/25 thrust) are dumb on uthgard because they screwed up the 2h styles. and this advice comes from someone who played a hybrid pally on live and on uthgard. but at lvl 50 I respecced out of 2h because the styles are too broken here.

lvl 4 style on live = 2s rear stun.
lvl 4 style on uthgard = 14 second rear snare.

lvl 39 style on live = 27s rear snare.
lvl 39 style on uthgard = 12s rear snare.

dont get me wrong, you do alright dps with 39 twohanded. the side style is fun after slam to help kill overextended tanks or dps down a squishy. but for style utility, the lvl 4 style is better than the lvl 39. and thats not even counting that the lvl 4 has a better to hit bonus.

add in the weaponskill to-hit bug of uthgard, and there is no reason to spec high twohanded. you might as well only go 4 twohand for the low level rear snare, and use that in situations where you need a quick snare.

3) full s/s (with 4 in twohanded) kicks little bunnies that love flowers. mostly for grouped play. for solo id still go hybrid or 2h.

shield is OPed on uthgard, so you get to always have it out ad usable. yes a good swapper can do about the same with hybrid. but as i said. the only really awesome style in 2h is the lvl 4. which you can get by sacrificing maybe 1 level in parry at most.

as slash you get: 77 more spec pts. side snare from slash, rear snare from 2h. i cant think of any usefull case when you would need a frotnal snare. and both of those are single stle snares. so you dotn have to deal with the frustration of a 2 part chain where either of two styles might miss, get bted, evaded, blocked, or parried.

as 44 thrust you get: 2 part anytime chain. and you still haev the option for the fast rear snare from 2h.

with all those spec pts not in 2h you can raise your chants spec to get red af chant (helps a fair amount to reduce dmg to the group), and pick up some more shield or parry. or increase your weapon spec so that you actually do moderate dps. sure its not like 2h dps, but it can be decent.

for uthgard i prefer the high defensive spec of 50 shield 48 chants 20 parry 29 slash. but there are a lot of options available for a s/s pally that can work with any playstyle.

The only one posting something meaningfull has been Netchel so far over 20 posts, so this not even worth it. You are right, thrust is better, there is not even reason to explain why and discuss about it