What is the reason for not sharing item database anyways? Can any uth staff answer?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Lasastard wrote:Can't say I agree with your points. Sure, if you are looking at one tester and his buddy, then you can account for effects introduced by non-capped gear. If you want to do broader, maybe even cross-realm comparisons (multiple testers pooling their insights from different experimental setups), then you should do everything you can to standardize as much as possible. And that means a) naked or b) cap gear (specifically resists). There are enough other sources of variation to worry about as it is (armor types and absorbs, stat differences etc blabla)

For the vast majority all it would take is a tester and his buddy. It doesnt require a large setup of people to gather their insights for testing, Ive teted multitudes of things without ever being in the same realm as someone. Everyone has access to equivalently the same gear for free, I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet if I went and compared the dps/af/quality of the free gear it would be the same across the 3 realms. If it isn't then that should be addressed.

What are a few things that you feel would require cap stats in order to test appropriately?

The only thing I could say it would help in is testing siege fights at relic keeps primarily.

CIDYM wrote:... I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet if I went and compared the dps/af/quality of the free gear it would be the same across the 3 realms. If it isn't then that should be addressed.

You are wrong and that's why it needs addressing. You can see variance on stats just by creating a new character and class, let alone joining a new realm. With across the board stats (aka cap gear or butt-naked) you effectively give a decent platform for testing and getting reliable results. Also, trying to test with character A having DF gear and character B being in a full template, the results wont hold a lot of weight.

barto22 wrote:

CIDYM wrote:... I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet if I went and compared the dps/af/quality of the free gear it would be the same across the 3 realms. If it isn't then that should be addressed.

You are wrong and that's why it needs addressing. You can see variance on stats just by creating a new character and class, let alone joining a new realm. With across the board stats (aka cap gear or butt-naked) you effectively give a decent platform for testing and getting reliable results. Also, trying to test with character A having DF gear and character B being in a full template, the results wont hold a lot of weight.

As I stated, I am not sure if the armors/weapons are equal in AF/DPS. As that should be addressed if they do differ, you can still control other variables in the test. You can control what you test against, who you test against, the resistance you are testing against, etc.

Unsure as to what you are testing, but choosing someone that is fully templated may or may not be the best choice. Either way its not going to change the weight of the results.

CIDYM wrote:

barto22 wrote:

CIDYM wrote:... I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet if I went and compared the dps/af/quality of the free gear it would be the same across the 3 realms. If it isn't then that should be addressed.

You are wrong and that's why it needs addressing. You can see variance on stats just by creating a new character and class, let alone joining a new realm. With across the board stats (aka cap gear or butt-naked) you effectively give a decent platform for testing and getting reliable results. Also, trying to test with character A having DF gear and character B being in a full template, the results wont hold a lot of weight.

As I stated, I am not sure if the armors/weapons are equal in AF/DPS. As that should be addressed if they do differ, you can still control other variables in the test. You can control what you test against, who you test against, the resistance you are testing against, etc.

Unsure as to what you are testing, but choosing someone that is fully templated may or may not be the best choice. Either way its not going to change the weight of the results.

That's what I'm saying.. It is different.

The devs have made a list of a few specific things they want tested, including relic taking which cannot be tested in a controlled environment. This is where having as many controls as possible is essential - hence the need for cap gear.

barto22 wrote:

CIDYM wrote:

barto22 wrote:
You are wrong and that's why it needs addressing. You can see variance on stats just by creating a new character and class, let alone joining a new realm. With across the board stats (aka cap gear or butt-naked) you effectively give a decent platform for testing and getting reliable results. Also, trying to test with character A having DF gear and character B being in a full template, the results wont hold a lot of weight.

As I stated, I am not sure if the armors/weapons are equal in AF/DPS. As that should be addressed if they do differ, you can still control other variables in the test. You can control what you test against, who you test against, the resistance you are testing against, etc.

Unsure as to what you are testing, but choosing someone that is fully templated may or may not be the best choice. Either way its not going to change the weight of the results.

That's what I'm saying.. It is different.

The devs have made a list of a few specific things they want tested, including relic taking which cannot be tested in a controlled environment. This is where having as many controls as possible is essential - hence the need for cap gear.

What else would you consider needs the capped stats though? I agree with the relic part needing it as I stated a couple posts up.

This is the final phase of the beta to test RvR. RvR is no fun without cap gear so ppl just don't join as much as they would with cap gear.
Items need to be checked with access to the database otherwise it is a waste of time.
So either GMs do it on their own or they give access to selected ppl who are willing to check it.

CIDYM wrote:What else would you consider needs the capped stats though? I agree with the relic part needing it as I stated a couple posts up.

Everything. Testing what will be realistic when live comes around is the whole point in the beta. We need to replicate what will happen on live and make sure it works and is bug free. It's a needless hoop to be jumping through and a burden that really has no grounds or value. It's so totally pointless that anybody trying to defend it is most likely already sitting pretty in their own templates and wants to have the advantage. Just my point about the relics alone is enough to just give cap gear really. Having as many set controls in any test when possible just goes without saying really. It's for the good of the data being collected.

A lot can be said about many implementations on this beta, such as the test dummies and trainers being so far from each other - another hoop to jump through. Having to to-and-fro between the cat and you trainer to level and spec when there any many other options that could be implemented to save heaps of time - duplicate the cat to a few locations around each capital or better yet, just add more trainers to each realm at starter towns or just near the cat. All this stuff can be removed on launch, it's not like anybody is expecting handholding then. We just want to correlate this data and get the testing done so we can press on.

There's no point farming for templates on this beta either. Without access to the database it really is just a lottery with drops.

There is no reason to go back to cat besides respecs. If u hit the exp button at lvl 1 then choose ur class. Just click your trainer again and it takes you to 50. You dont need to hit cat xp twice.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

barto22 wrote:

CIDYM wrote:What else would you consider needs the capped stats though? I agree with the relic part needing it as I stated a couple posts up.

Everything. Testing what will be realistic when live comes around is the whole point in the beta. We need to replicate what will happen on live and make sure it works and is bug free. It's a needless hoop to be jumping through and a burden that really has no grounds or value. It's so totally pointless that anybody trying to defend it is most likely already sitting pretty in their own templates and wants to have the advantage. Just my point about the relics alone is enough to just give cap gear really. Having as many set controls in any test when possible just goes without saying really. It's for the good of the data being collected.

A lot can be said about many implementations on this beta, such as the test dummies and trainers being so far from each other - another hoop to jump through. Having to to-and-fro between the cat and you trainer to level and spec when there any many other options that could be implemented to save heaps of time - duplicate the cat to a few locations around each capital or better yet, just add more trainers to each realm at starter towns or just near the cat. All this stuff can be removed on launch, it's not like anybody is expecting handholding then. We just want to correlate this data and get the testing done so we can press on.

There's no point farming for templates on this beta either. Without access to the database it really is just a lottery with drops.

agree, its tough to determine balance when I'm fighting a tricked out SB and I'm in DF gear with 8% slash resists. Sure I can look back at the damage (after my death) and perhaps 'guess' what my damage or damage against would have been but still not accurate.
Last night I completed an entire perf chain on an SB, she was tricked out, I swapped poisons 3 times and STILL lost by a considerable margin. Now I'm not saying that I should have won 100% of the time but if an assassin gets a perf chain off on another, the odds better be over 80%. I can tell who's has crap gear and who doesn't by simply looking at my damage against and on me..

we have full set groups going against pugs and demolishing them, which granted most of the time should win, but not as quickly as now. The Set groups aren't even extending well, their healers are staying alive simply because they are tricked out and even when they are being hammered they stay alive.

Just make items with resists and + to spec lines on them, put them in the DF merchants.. I'd be cool with even still using the DF weapons and armor at least my resists are capped (as they should/would be at lvl 50 RR5+)

They keep saying they want more then just fighting 1v1 or emain tested... so go get that gear you need to compete and make sure its possible or any other bugs you may find in that process. If that guy is fully geared out.. means he has tested that out on at least 1 characters... or he has some good friends that did it or helped him do it.

well once again for ignorance purposes i must stress that cap gear has nothing to do with people wanting equality in rvr but has everything to do with ease of testing. why force your volunteer testers to go through extra steps to compensate for uncapped testing?

is the goal not to launch the server in a timely manner? you are only adding unnecessary steps into this process. i really hope these feeble-minded people that frequent the forums and continuously proclaim you dont need cap gear just to continue their insta-gibbing of DF geared people are not the ones influencing the staffs decision on this.

soddin wrote:They keep saying they want more then just fighting 1v1 or emain tested... so go get that gear you need to compete and make sure its possible or any other bugs you may find in that process. If that guy is fully geared out.. means he has tested that out on at least 1 characters... or he has some good friends that did it or helped him do it.

but I think that's the point, I have friends that are all LGM's and I can get my suit tricked out-actually I'm having one worked on' but why should we in Beta HAVE To spend the hours getting to LGM just to be able to get a fell temp out? something like Crafting can get ironed out easily if a bug is found on live, no need to sit there and watch the green bar for hours on end-I once even attempted to bribe my then 10 year old to craft for me. $15 per hour, with a $15 bonus! After 10 minutes she said 'no boring' and kept her bonus!

There are two set groups (hib and Mid) that I see regularly during my scouting forays through the frontiers. you say 'don't go to emain' sure! I did, I spent a night in Mid nada nothing.. I even went to the old pve grounds but forgot that everyone is I50 so no ganking there to draw out 50's.. I spend 1.5 hours running around unstealthed didn't find a soul! Granted Beta and everyone is in Emain.

Why would a new player that has no $$ want to 'test' if they log into Alb and are in Camp station and have to hoof it 20+ minutes to Camelot? if I didn't have friends already playing and willing to take a horse to camp station and give me some $$ I would have logged and never returned- and I love Daoc-Classic Server was the most fun/balanced and memorable time I've had on DaOC this is as close as I can get to that.

I don't think some of the suggestions are out of this world:

-gold for new toons
-add some resists items to the DF merchant
- perhaps granted LGM status to one toon for account so that one new person can easily generate income salvaging etc

the population is too small to worry about in game commerce balancing, 100% of the people I've chatted with love the I50 idea and wouldn't have showed up if not for it-I was here well before but decided I only have 1 more DaOC leveling in me, I'd rather do that live. No gold for kills is idiotic, I spend 10 silver per medallion lets say i'm a new player and someone gives me a few gold. I still need to farm for $ simply to be able to port or purchase poisons or arrows!

So I won't be playing until the release is out. Here is why.

I started "testing" about a month and a half ago. I30 was great, but Cale sucked. I did level most of my toons to lvl 35, but those that had been playing on this server for quite some time, of course had the twinked out characters that would rip everyone apart. Ok, no big deal, I can wait until I50 to show them!! Well, I am seeing stealthers take out 3 people in a single fight. It's pretty silly. I'm not complaining at all about stealthers, I am complaining about the maxed out gear vs the trash gear. Quite frankly, it's no fun to RVR when that kind of stuff happens. It's very frustrating.

So me and my brother, we decided we would level up some skills so that we to can be maxed out. We rolled up a couple of necros and started looking for gear, and gold. Not soon after, thinking we were making progress towards our goal, we realized that leveling up weaponcrafting, chain, spellcrafting, tailoring, and alchemy would probably take us close to 2 months of playing every day, only to wipe that progress out when we go live. Obviously that is not worth it.

Why not just have the ability to make crafting free? I don't mind sitting there clicking a button 1000's of times, as long as I know that I can get to where I am going and that it will be worth the time. I would put in the time in that scenario. Two months to compete in RVR only to be wiped, is not worth it at all. Right now I am playing Madden 17 and soon Destiny. Bleh.